Schmickar Drilling

[algmule]

Hello

You may want to drop the c in Schmi(c)kal and conduct a search. Here are two images.
BreslauerAdreßbuch1935.JPG

00Schmikal.JPG

Kind regards
Peter

[ellenbr]

Lovely sleuthing there Moose Snoot. Piotr J. Bochyński just might have some info on firearms merchants in Wrocław?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[jillandsam303]

Peter, thanks. I guess the Schmikals (or Scmickals) were gun makers for a long time. Spellings can change over generations. P1130586.jpg

[Axel E]

Contemplated this drilling a bit and came to other conclusions about the age:
The drilling shows only a Zella – Mehlis repair proof from August 1910 for the 9.3x72R, but no original BUG proofmarks.
J.Röhmer was a Suhl gunmaker. Suhl gunmakers avoided to have their guns proofed in rivalling "cheapo" Zella –Mehlis, if possible.
Röhmer's DRGM had expired by 1899 and his DRP would expire soon, 1912. So it was unnecessary, if not illegal, to advertis them prominently on a 1910 made gun.
I think now: The drilling was one of the first made and sold by J.Röhmer to his patent in 1892, before the German proof law became effective. In !910 the then owner had it rechambered by a cheaper Z –M gunsmith to the 1909 normalised 9.3x72R, either from one of the old shapes or from one of the other, outmoded case lengths like 9.3x70R. As the drilling was unproofed before, the Zella-Melis gunsmith duly submitted it for reproof.

[ellenbr]

Axel E.:

I seem to recall you stating that they could tout their novel advancements on their own wares outside of the protection period so where has this illegal segment surfaced? Also, why reference Austro-Hungarian Empire and all that chicken scratching along w/ the Roman Numerals on the triggerplate? Or maybe better stated, why reference Germany & use the English term "Patent"?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

Or maybe better stated, why reference Germany & use the English term "Patent"?

The term "Patent" is not English exclusively. It is the German generic term too. DRPstands for Deutsches Reichs Patent = patent of the German empire. Röhmer here proudly lists all the national patents he had obtained. At that times a patent was valid only in the state that issued it. In Austria any protction was called a "Privileg" then. I don’t know the Hungarian words.

Also, why reference Austro-Hungarian Empire and all that chicken scratching along w/ the Roman Numerals on the triggerplate?

The Austro – Hungarian Empire consisted of two parts, Austria and Hungary. Concerning internal affairs they were independent of each other. So each part had his own patent law, including different numbering systems. So the numbers 9698 44 4071 refer to Austrian Privilege, while 64473 XXVIII 2765 are Hungarian numbers. I can not make out the letters and numbers behind/under the triggers.

I seem to recall you stating that they could tout their novel advancements on their own wares outs ide of the protection period so where has this illegal segment surfaced?

I have to retrieve that, but meanwhile I read it in a ca. 1900 issue of "Der Waffenschmied", iirc. At least a competitor might sue you for unfair business practices if you advertised a product as novel and exclusive with an invalid DRP or DRGM.
Raimey, you should definitely take some courses on German language and European history before acting as an "expert" .

[algmule]

Hello

The following:
AAA1.jpg
AAA2.jpg

Also: I'm asking the following because I wish to know. A crown R was stamped on guns with no proof markings when handed to a proof facility even though it wasn't an actual re-proof? Again, I'm asking because I wish to know.

Also again: What's the date on the DRGM involved?

Kind regards
Peter

[Axel E]

älgmule, the attachments you specified appear to be invalid.
About the repair proof only: I merely looked for an explanation. But I can think about another possibility now. Schmickal had a new set of barrels made by a Zella – Mehlis gunmaker in 1915, a common and widely advertised service before WW1. Maybe the original rifle barrel was in one of the countless larger bore black powder, lead bullet cartridges, mostly proprietary ones, outmoded after 1900. Or the old shot barrels were of damascus, deemed unsuitable for smokeless then.
DRGM 16378 was of 1892.

[algmule]

Hello

Sorry about the attachments. I've edited my post now and attached them once more. I hope it works this time.

Axel, thanks for the clarification of the date on the DRGM. If 3+3 years for a DRGM was the maximum period for a DRGM the Drilling was manufactured sometime between 1892 and 1898. That is if it was illegal to mark a gun with a DRGM after the six year period. And why would there be a 1910 date code on a barrel set manufactured in 1915? I apologize if I make no sense but I've had my head in DRGM and patent information all day so I may not be thinking in a logical manner at the moment.

I'm more confused now then before (see above paragraph). Isn't the current rifle barrel caliber 6.5x52R? And the rifle barrel marked for a 9-9,3mm bore? If there was an earlier barrel set the Drilling has been through many changes.

EDIT: and why would a Drilling manufactured 1892-1898 be marked with DRGM and patent numbers if it weren't proofed in that period? Why wait until 1910? I need a break.

Kind regards
P-E-T-E-R

[Axel E]

Sorry, but 1915 was my error. It's 1910, of course. Too many questions and proofmarks at the same time!
Obviously the barrel was lined in the USA to .25-35.

[jillandsam303]

Axel, so your opinionis that it wasn't re-lined in Europe for the 6.5x52R? Just wondering. Sam

[jillandsam303]

Peter, there are no markings on the bullet trap as you can see. Sam 20180327_163011.jpg20180327_163029.jpg20180327_162922.jpg

[Axel E]

Axel, so your opinionis that it wasn't re-lined in Europe for the 6.5x52R?

If relined in Europe, it would have been reproofed for the new cartridge. Proof is mandatory here. Releasing a gun, altered to take a different cartridge, out of shop without submitting it to a government proofhouse first is a criminal offence.

[algmule]

Hello

Not that it matters much but could someone please inform me what the “Zweite” implies in the following? Pay more money or the patent won’t be valid? At least that is what I read from the first paragraph.

”In das k. k. Privilegienregister eingetragene Zahlungen von Taxannuitäten behufs weiterer Aufrechthaltung von Privilegien.”
________________________________________
”Jacob Röhmer auf ein Bügelspannendes Gewehrschloß für Drillinggewehre mit zwei Abzügen und Stecher auf der Scheibe, Hähnen und Spannbügel auf einer Stelle und automatischer Visirstellung; ertheilt 5. Juni 1894. Zweite”

The above is the Austrian patent. Or so I believe!

Kind regards
Peter

[jillandsam303]

Thanks Axel!

Sam