9 X 57 anyone?

[sharps4590]

Not long ago I picked up a J. P. Sauer & Sohn Mauser sporter chambered in this cartridge. I have a few loads from COTW but haven't had much success finding any other data. Does anyone have any experience with this cartridge? Mike, I remember you mentioning yours. The 250 gr. Hornady RN I've been swaging down is working pretty good and I have a few Hawk 225 gr. RN I'll try. I did try the one cast bullet I have and it was....better than fair but nothing to write home about. About the only powder data I can find is for IMR-3031 and one IMR-4064 load. Any other source or anyone's data for cast or jacketed? I also have several 200 gr. Hornady RN I could try but from what I can learn that seems just a little light. Any advice appreciated!

Vic

[mike ford]

Vic,
Due to stock problems, I used 200 gr.RN in mine for the most part. It did ok, I killed deer with it. As I recall, I used 4895, around 46 gr, maybe 46.5. Don't trust my memory,reduce the load and work back up as you usually do. A 200 grain bullet is a little lighter than the usual weight, but should work fine for deer class animals.If you can find one good load, then you can work on more.I didn't use cast bullets in mine due to a rough barrel, but I would guess a hard bullet and around 28 gr 5744, 12gr Unique, or 13 gr Red Dot, I use a filler with Unique and Red Dot in other cartridges, but that is very controversial and you have to decide for yourself. I think I would save the Hawk bullets until I worked out better loads.They are more expensive and I think would be a good compromise bullet weight for heavier animals. Did you ever get photos of the proof marks?
Mike

[sharps4590]

Well horse manure....no, I haven't take photos of the proofs. Slipped my mind entirely.

Reference the Hawk bullets....the rifle does not like them, at least not over 4064 or 3031. 3 inch groups at 50 yards. I was a little surprised at that. I did try those 200 gr. Hornady's and it wasn't fond of them either. At least not the 2 loads with 3031 and 4064 I tried. I believe they could be made to work ok with more testing. It does really like that 250 gr. Hornady RN with either powder. It's funny....it plants the first two shots of a 3 shot group either lapping or just about touching each other and the 3rd will be high and right about an inch. You can just about count on it. Light barrel contour and the keyed forearm I expect have something to do with that....probably mostly the keyed forearm.

Right now, unless I come across some 4895, I'll be working with the 250 gr. bullet. It groups and shoots well, as described, but I need to get about 3 inches of elevation off it. Faster or lighter doesn't work in this rifle for some reason....(because it's a rifle!!!).....but I'll figure it out.

As always, thanks Mike!

[mike ford]

Vic,
If you kill the animal with the first shot, you don't need the second and third. When I do hunt with a bolt gun, I usually only load one in the mag. any way. BTW to get the 200 grain bullet to shoot in mine, I had to back the powder down from 52 gr 4895 as shown in the data I had, to the 46.5gr.
Mike

[sharps4590]

I don't remember the last time I fired two shots at a big game animal.....I really don't. I know it hasn't happened more than once or twice in my entire hunting life..because I'm such a woos at taking what I think are less than optimal shots, I guess. I just thought it was interesting that the first two were so close and the third went elsewhere, every time.

I tried the 250 gr. at 100 yards and it was a foot high....and more of a pattern than a group. I didn't measure it but it had to be 10 inches. There was what could possibly be some mitigating circumstances but I don't think 10 inches worth. Anyway, I haven't gotten the POI down even by loading down the 250 gr. as much as I dare. I still haven't seen any 4895 either. I have another place to look tomorrow. I loaded down some 200 gr. bullets also and they were still at least 6 inches high. It just might be time to make the front sight taller....speaking of which.....

The front sight on this rifle appears to be dovetailed in from the muzzle. Wouldn't it be possible to tap it out and either find, buy or make a taller front sight to fit the dovetail? At this point I just don't think I'm going to be able to lower the POI enough with loads and would rather change the front sight and file it in as to do anything to that gorgeous rear sight. Yes, no, maybe or just leave it alone?

I am going to have another go with the cast bullet with SR-4759 and see if there's any difference as compared to the IMR-3031 load. This one is being contrary.

Vic

[mike ford]

Vic,
I use "military pull down"(demilled) 4895 equiv. powder. You might find it in "powder for sale" section in "Shotgun News", I guess now you could find surplus dealers on the internet. As I recall, I went in with a buddy and we bought 32 pounds, which was enough for the dealer to pay the Hazmat fee.If you find a dealer, but there is no 4895, they may have other interesting powders at a really good price. I think the guy we dealt with was in KY. The front sight on your rifle is pretty much standard. I think you might be able to buy a new one from New England Custom Guns. I'm sure they have ERA parts. Get the tallest "partridge type" sight they have, then you can adjust the height with out having to contend with a bead.When you fit the sight to the dovetail, don't file the sides, file the bottom flat to lower it. It should be thick enough to give plenty room for this.
Mike

[sharps4590]

I will look at NECG for a sight and thank you for the filing tip. I doubt I would have done it that way and probably would have ruined a sight in the process. I figured for a Patridge sight. I'll probably have to file the notches square but that won't take much.

I remember you mentioning the military pull down...I still haven't seen any but I haven't looked either.

[sharps4590]

So much for the cast bullet load and SR-4759. It shot higher than the others. Query is in to NECG regarding a sight. Fun, ain't it!!

[mike ford]

It is fun, see what 13 gr Red Dot or 12 gr Unique does with the cast bullet- I use kapok, but a lot of folks don't like it.
Mike

[Mt Al]

First time post and I understand this is an older thread. I had two drillings in 9x57R and hand loaded it for several years until I sold them (still having regrets). I necked up 8x57R with a 35 Whelen expander ball for my brass.

I, too, used 4895 and I think it was about 44 grains. Recall this is the R version and not a bolt action. I used 250 grain Hawk bullets of .356 dia and shot an antelope, cow elk a few deer with it. Never chronographed the load but assume it was very pedestrian. Regardless, the critters fell dead as if hit from a very large sledge hammer.

Hope you're having fun with your 9x57.

[mike ford]

Mt Al,
Welcome, looking forward to your offerings. Sharps4590, just got a drilling in the rimmed version, and just setting up to load for it. I can't speak for him, but I'm pretty sure he will appreciate your data for it.
Mike

[Greg47]

Should be able to use some starting 35 whelen loads. 4895 is an excellent powder for that bore & case capacity. This is of course if the action is tight and headspace checked by your smith.

[Mt Al]

Found my 8th edition Cartridges of the World that was my reference for 9x57R. I used 358 Winchester vs. 35 Whelen as a place to start personally. The 9x57 and 57R section calls out IMR 3031 in 38 - 43 grains and IMR 4064 in 46 grains for varying weights of bullets. Was a very fun cartridge to shoot when I had them. One was a double rifle drilling and I just couldn't make it regulate, didn't have time and funds to keep working it, then kids, then etc etc and sold it. Have fun Sharps!

[Axel E]

The DEVA published these pressure tested loads for both the 9x57 and the 9x57R. All loads are well below the CIP max pressure of 2800 bar (piezo-electric transducer). All loads use the unresized bullets, as they come from the factory.
Sierra .357” 158 gr sn, 46 gr IMR 3031, 2490 fps at 1781 bar
Sierra .357” 170 gr fmj, 47 gr VV N130, 2600 fps at 2374 bar.
Speer .358” 250 gr sp, 46 gr Norma 202, 2200 fps at 2150 bar
Speer .358” 250 gr sp, 46 gr IMR 4895, 2215 fps at 2386 bar
Speer .358” 250 gr sp, 47 gr VV N140, 2215 fps at 2341 bar
Myself I use this 9x57 load in both my bolt action rifles, a M98 and a Haenel M1909 one:
Hornady .358” 250 gr rn, 49 gr VV N140, 2300 fps, not pressure tested, but no pressure signs. A real killer on roe, red deer and boar.

[sharps4590]

Interesting this thread would pop up at this time. As Mike said, I just acquired a drilling in this cartridge. In the Sauer & Sohn Mauser the final jacketed bullet load I chose was 44 grs. of IMR-3031 beneath a 250 gr. bullet with an average velocity of 2143 fps. I also worked up a cast load with a 248 gr. gas checked bullet of 17 grs. of Unique with an open cell foam filler. It averages 1618 fps. Energy of the jacketed bullet load calculate to 2550 fpe and the cast bullet at 1454 fpe. Either load is more than adequate for anything I'm likely to hunt. Pressure signs are mild with both loads.

I didn't have any 4895, either IMR or H, at the time. I have both now and will more than likely try a load or three utilizing it. Components should start arriving this week and development will start. Indeed, some kind soul, of his own volition, sent me some 7 X 57R brass to fireform. As they just arrived in yesterdays post all I have done is drop them in the brass tumbler. I'll work on a few this afternoon and evening. Also as Mike mentioned, I'm grateful for any data on this cartridge and thanks to you who have shared yours.

Vic