16 X 16 over 9.3 X 72

[sharps4590]

What can anyone tell me about Emil v. Nordheim?

This drilling with his name on it looks pretty good but the engraving at the breech looks a little hokey to me.

Vic

[mike ford]

Vic,
What about photos? " Are you sure about the name? Nordheim is normally a place name ( although someone from there may have been named "Nordheimer", especially if Jewish), and there are more than one Nordheims. Emil is usually a "given"name. The way you describe it, it seems the inscription reads" Emil from(von) Nordheim". Maybe Axel can give us the correct info.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Sometimes I am such a dolt!!!! I had the link to the drilling up and promptly forgot to post it in the thread. Here it is......sheesh.....

http://www.gunsamerica.com/974833514..._v_Nordhei.htm

[Axel E]

Mike, though "Nordheim" is a placename in Germany too, " von Nordheim" is a common family name in Zella-Mehlis too, 18 of them listed in the current telephone dirctory. Flintenkalle lists 22 v.N's active in the Z-M guntrade at one time or another, and the now director of the Zella-Mehlis museum is a v.Nordheim too. Emil von Nordheim (1859-1938), opened his business in 1879. He made Zimmerstutzen, but was mainly active as a wholesaler and did mail-order business, mostly in cheap guns. This drilling was certainly made for him by the Zella-Mehlis guntrade. The Z-M guntrade catered more often than the neighbouring Suhl one to the lower cost, utility market. A citizen of Suhl would even today comment the overall execution of the gun: "This looks like a Mehlis job!"

[sharps4590]

So this is a good quality piece? It looks good to me, except as I mentioned about the engraving at the breech. I do like the fences and the wood looks very good.

[ellenbr]

Would like to see the marks as I am curious if the tubes were sourced from Liege. I think his verbiage of "mit Rauchloss Paurel Schossen Prima Krupp Startlauf" should be mit Rauchloss Pulver Schlossen Krupp Stahllauf if that makes any sense.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Büchsemann]

Sharps,

I do not want to speak for Axel but my read on what he is saying, between the lines that is, is you could do better. Your enthusiasm is great stuff and it is clear that you have been stung by the German gun bug but personally I would recommend that you save your bills and make you next purchase that of another step up in quality. I know, "Patience my _ss!" said the hungry vulture "I'm gonna kill something!" but patience does have its reward.

Büchsemann

[sharps4590]

I thank you Buchse. Patience is a learned virtue.....at least it was on my part!!!! If I can wait 5 years and 8 months for a particular Sharps surely I can force myself to wait and look for another German firearm....lol!! I really shouldn't be buying another just now anyway.

The wood certainly looks good but that engraving at the breech......it certainly doesn't have the same appearance of my other German firearms.

[Axel E]

Raimey, your translation doesn't make sense too. I suspect it should read: "rauchlos beschossen = smokeless prooved ( a frequent advertizing add on) / prima Krupp Stahllauf = finest Krupp steel barrel." IMHO the drilling was restocked at some time. The large, capped pistol grip is very unusual for a German hammer drilling, usually these have uncapped round pistol grip. And, the checkering texture, lines per inch, seems to differ from that on the foreend, see the second photo. All in all the buttstock looks unusually clumsy to me, even for a Zella-Mehlis make. As the round barrel stamps are somewhat worn, I suspect the gun was reworked quite recently. Maybe the barrel breeches were scratched up by the same artist who restocked the gun. On the plus side, those Z-M made hammer drillings were usually solid working guns. The "Schlangenhebel" = snake shaped opening lever is very practical in use. Further, the drilling has true backlocks with long, V mainsprings. Too often hammer drillings feature the then fashionable small, egg-shaped island locks. The tiny V-springs of these locks are often marginal in power, one cause of the frequent ignition problems with hammer drillings and modern lr primers.

[sharps4590]

Axel, I see the difference in the wood and checkering. I hadn't noticed that before. I believe you are right and are probably right about the "engraving", if such it can be called, at the breech. I also believe you're right about the drilling being re-worked. I did not think that but it did seem a little too "slick" for most firearms I see of that era. Thank you!

While I'm on line, there has to be drillings and Cape guns that are more desireable than others. Is there a list that might rank names/makers in desirability/quality or a book in particular that would offer similar information? Or, is it largely a learning curve as it is with most other things?

Vic

[ellenbr]

Axel, I believe the seller can count the number of letters and the respective sets so the number of letters has to be something of the same datastring as "mit Rauchloss Paurel Schossen Prima Krupp Startlauf". I'm pretty confident the Belgians were stamping it so they might not have known what it meant.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

ok,Raimey, I missed a few words in my "translation". To keep to the original wording it may read: Mit rauchlosem Pulver beschossen. An advertizement not by the proofhouse, but by the maker/wholesaler/retailer. I repeat: the combination Rauchlos/Schloss makes no sense in German. Anything illegible in German might have fooled an American or a worthy oriental gentleman, but not one of the German customers of Emil v.Nordheim. What makes you think the barrels or the whole gun are of Belgian origin? The Zella-Mehlis guntrade certainly had their own barrelmakers. The import of barrels fom Belgium generally ended when damascus barrels went out of fashion. As I wrote above, the gun was probably severely reworked oand refinished, so the original letters may have been obscured.

[ellenbr]

It just may have been a Chinaman & that's my point exactly. The Germans or their clients were not interested in such advertising, so count on one hand the number of Suhl, Zella-Mehlis sourced sporting weapons that wear such verbiage. The German proofhouses for some reason dictated the bar by which all other continental proofhouse would strive to attain. The verbiage was advertising by which to sell their product and to give an assurance that the sporting weapon would meet German powder pressure values. So, I ask again, who other than the Belgians would apply such advertising?? The craftsmen in Zella Sankt Blasii & Mehlis had no reason for the phrase.


amtlich vierfach geprueft und eingeschossen mit staerkster ladung rauchlosen pulvers



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[sharps4590]

This is wonderful!!! All the good gun "stuff" I'm learning simply by asking about a drilling. I've learned more of the German language in the last month than I've learned in the last 50 years. Of course I am absolutely certain I am not pronouncing it so it could be understood. Please carry on, gentlemen!

[mike ford]

Raimey,
Can you get better photos of the actual verbage on the gun itself. I agree with Axel that the text in the Auction Advert. doesn't make sense, either in German or translated to English. We hardly ever see the correct verbage on these old drillings advertised on the auction sites. For instance, what is "Startstahl"? I would opine that the actual word would be Laufstahl. When you combine wear, rust,polishing for reblue, and text written in old German; it's a wonder we can "make out" any of the words.