Time to find new homes for nice pieces

[mike ford]

Diz,
I'm having the same problem, I just thought it was my own ignorance.
Vic, The bore diameter for a 9.5, would likely be 9.3 mm and if it has German proofs, it may be 9,3/57, even if it is 9.5x56 MS. I don't have an explanation for the 1909, however.

Mike

[sharps4590]

I couldn't get them to expand either. As with Mike I figured it was me given my extraordinary computer skills...........but, evidently not....surprise, surprise.

The 9.5 is a good cartridge and I think it's the same as the British 375 Express? That or something similar. As I understand some brass is still available and it's easily re-formed from something.....which I forget.

[Jerry42]

20170803_104655c.jpg
All right, perhaps I have solved the enlargement problem with this pic, please let me know and I will redo the others. This is one time when a Grandson working is a true pain. Please forgive my less than perfect tech capabilities and error on the Mannlicher description.
This pic from the top a 1910 in 8 X 57 Mauser This one rebuilt and restocked from a wreck, but a very accurate and smooth handling gun.
The middle is a 1905 in 9.3 X 57 This one came with the older bullets pictured and they match perfectly with the 9.3 X 57 Norma ammo in diameter.
The bottom is the 1903 in 6.5 X 54 MS with Lyman Alaskan scope and QD mount.

[mike ford]

Jerry42,
I still couldn't get it to expand, and without that there is no way to read the markings. A 1910 MS, should be chambered for 9.5x57, an 8mm( should be 8x56MS, but sometimes incorrect ammo is used) should be a 1908. A 1905 should be chambered for 9x57. Do you know if the top rifle was rebarreled during it's renovation? Have you "slugged" the bore of the second rifle? The caliber and model number match, for the 1903.

[Jerry42]

Mike,
The top rifle was sold to me as a Springer conversion to 8x57. The claw mount covers the model number, but the serial number is 8454. It may well be a different model.
I have not slugged the barrel on the 1905, but have a source that will. It came with the antique ammo, which meases the same bullet diameter as the 9.3x57 that I shoot in my Haenel. I will go ahead and take it over to the gunsmith. The SN on the 1905 is 5406.

[mike ford]

Jerry42,
In my mind, the question about the 8mm is answered. Springer is a well known name and if marked by him and reproofed as 8x57, I don't think it's value would take a "hit", as it would if it were changed and not marked/reproofed. If the barrel on the 1905 slugs .0354-.358", it is 9x57, if it slugs .364"-366", it is 9.3x57. While pretty rare now, it one time it wasn't that uncommon to find barrels that had been rebored/ rechambered to a larger caliber, to save a damaged barrel. How well the market accepts this depends on the markings. This is why I keep asking about the photos of the markings.
Mike

[Jerry42]

20170804_134022c.jpg
Mike,
Took the 8 X 57 apart looking for a Springer mark and found nothing except matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. I have heard that the 2 digits following the proof house numbers are the year proofed. If this is so it was proofed in 1919. Since I could find nothing indicating an 8x57 was made except in a model 24/25, could it be one?
Also could you expand this one?

[mike ford]

Jerry,
The barrel contour is typical Steyr and even though I can't really make out the precise proof marks, it doesn't seem to have a second proof, which would have been required if it were converted to 8x57( I think it would be required). I believe you have a model 1908, in 8x56MS. The critical dimensions affecting headspace, between 8x56MS and 8x57Mauser are close enough that we find 8x56MS rifles that will chamber some 8x57Mauser cartridges. The "no go" gauge for 8x56MS is likely to be .005-.006" longer than the "go gauge". The cartridges will have their own tolerances and would have to be short enough to fit in the shortest chamber, or shorter. This creates conditions that can cause a lot of confusion, and we find, pretty often, 8x56MS rifles sold as 8x57Mauser rifles. This may not be as bad as it sounds. If a fired case will easily accept a bullet of the diameter in the ammo you are using, then it can be used. This test just shows whether or not an 8x57 cartridge neck is being "jammed" into the rifling. If you have been using American ammo, it is typically loaded to lower pressures, which helps the situation. I would feel better if Axel would weigh in, as he is more familiar with these rifles.
Mike

[sharps4590]

I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help but I agree with Mike about the rifle needing a second proof if it was re-chambered in Germany.

Not long ago I purchased a 1908 and the question came up about the chamber in my rifle. As Mike mentioned there is some 1908's that will accept 8 X 57 Mauser ammo. Mine is not among them and if I remember correctly the proof date on mine is 1929.

[Jerry42]

Barrel slugs to 9 MM so the 1905 is a 9 x 56 MS. It pays to measure.

[rtenenbown]

PM sent on 6.5 MS.

[jillandsam303]

Jerry, now that you solved the "photo expansion" issue, can you put some larger pix of your drillings if you still have them? Thanks