System Konkurrence

[yamoon]

Hello
I have a system Konkurrence rifle retailed by Hans Lechner, Nurenburg. I shoot it regularly. It is 8.15x46. I am hoping someone can offer some thoughts on why it has no proof marks, the gun is all original & has not been refinished. Too say I like German Schuetzen & stalking rifles is an understatement, I have 14 and shoot them all. In the winter months I shoot the 2 classic free pistols in doors, a buchel & a stotzer perfect.
Thanks Mike

[Axel E]

As the 8.15x46R cartridge became popular after 1893 only, a rifle without proofmarks would be very unusual. Have you detached the foreend and looked underneath? The German proofmarks are usually hidden by the foreend.
The "Modell Konkurrenz" was made by the E.F. Buechel company, Hauptstrasse 4, Zella – Mehlis, by 1900 ran by son Cuno Büchel. Your rifle was retailed by Hans Lechner, Irrerstrasse 8, Nuremberg, founded 1856, still existed until after 1945.
In Tom Rowe's "Alte Scheibenwaffen Vol.1", page 342, another Büchel Konkurrenz, retailed by Hans Lechner, is shown. As on that rifle the bore diameter is given as "7.7 mm", it was proofed post-1911.

[Axel E]

As the 8.15x46R cartridge became popular after 1893 only, a rifle without proofmarks would be very unusual. Have you detached the foreend and looked underneath? The German proofmarks are usually hidden by the foreend.
The "Modell Konkurrenz" was made by the E.F. Buechel company, Hauptstrasse 4, Zella - Mehlis, by 1900 ran by son Cuno Buechel. Your rifle was retailed by Hans Lechner, Irrerstrasse 8, Nuremberg, founded 1856, still existed until after 1945.
In Tom Rowe's "Alte Scheibenwaffen Vol.1", page 342, another Buechel Konkurrenz, retailed by Hans Lechner, is shown. As on that rifle the bore diameter is given as "7.7 mm", it was proofed post-1910.

[Fred]

I have an 8,15 target rifle with only the V proof mark. It was from the shop of Frohn, however, who was an early and ardent proponent of the cartridge.

[Axel E]

I have an 8,15 target rifle with only the V proof mark. It was from the shop of Frohn, however, who was an early and ardent proponent of the cartridge.

I wrote: "the 8.15x46R cartridge became popular after 1893 only". There is a book, in German, by Anderhub & Kellner & Techel, "8.15x46R – Die Deutsche Schuetzenpatrone",Weisendorf 2012, on the history of the cartridge. Adolf Frohn is most likely the inventor of the cartridge. The authors quote a heated debate about the suitability of 8 mm as a target caliber in the then "Deutsche Schuetzen- und Wehrzeitung" 1894. A.Frohn mixed into the discussion with four lengthy posts. According to his own words he started experiments that led to the 8.15x46R in 1890, and completed the development by 1893.. But even in 1894 the cartridge was much disputed, still far from being the accepted standard.
According to the Reichs decree from January 4, 1893, the crown/V Vorratszeichen was struck only from that date to March 31, 1893 on guns ready for sale. The stamps were to be destroyd after April 1, 1893.
So it is quite possible to find a rifle by Frohn in 8.15x46R, made in early 1893, but very unlikely to find a rifle by a competing gunmaker, completed before April1, 1893. all German guns made after April 1,1893 were to be proofed.

[yamoon]

037 (800x600).jpgThe only markings at all is a cursive W with a very small LH under it. These marks are under the fore end. The name Hans Lechner one side of the breach & Nuenburg on the other. No cal. or grove size. This is just one of the mysteries around these old rifles.