Carl Eislebein in Hamm rifle

[PatBig]

I have bought and received the Carl Eislebein rifle I was mentioning in a previous post. It has some mechanical issues but aside from that it's in great condition, no rust whatsoever, near perfect barrel in and out. It was probably used by some serious shooter, there's some lead inside the forehand and the balance is very good, I can't wait to shoot this rifle. The barrel markings are attached, the one i can readily understand says 7,60 mm. A 30-30 case goes right inside except it's a tad to long, I managed to get it in the whole way and it hits the rifling at the end of the chamber. Ideal length looks like 47 to 46 mm so I assume this is 8.15X46R despite the 7,60 mm marking. The frame is silver plated, that's why it's black now. The rear trigger is missing,broken. I have not yet dismantled the action. Nothing happens when I action the lever, or pull the trigger. At the minimum the mainspring is missing or broken. Anyway a nice project, I hope I can deal with it, with some expert advice.

[mike ford]

Pat,
The 7.6 is the bore diameter,not the groove or bullet diameter.It just means a 7.6mm(.299")plug ga. will fit into he barrel, but a 7.7(.303")ga.will not fit.While pretty tight for a 8.15x46R, barrels so marked are not too rare(7.7&7.8mm are often seen also).The groove dia.in the barrel of one of my rifles, marked 7.6, "slugs" .312".Another that I know of "slugs".3125". I would then expect yours to "slug" about the same.You can use 30-30 cases, by shortening them to about 47mm,fire form( you may have to FL size to 8.15x46) and trim to final length.The rim of 30-30 cases often have to be thinned, and for my rifle they have to be both thinned and reduced in dia.The rifle will tell you what it needs. If a shortened, sized case won't chamber w/o excessive force, check the rim closely. For the set trigger to work, it must be "set" by pulling the rear trigger. This means the rear trigger should be repaired or replaced first.
Mike

[PatBig]

Thanks, I was confused by the small number. I have set triggers on my Gebert so I am familiar with them, though on this one I don't know if I'll try and make a new part or weld or braze a lever on the broken piece. Things got a bit more complex though as I remove the action and as I suspected I am missing the mainspring, not too bad, but also the sear, that's worse. It's going to be a challenge making a new one. Any sketch, dimensions diagram etc... welcome. I have a rough idea of what it should look like from the Alte Scheibenwaffen book, vol 1. Pity I have these issues, aside from them the rifle is very clean as you can see. trigger-mechanism-web.jpg

[mike ford]

Pat,
There are a lot of old,trashed out doublebarrel shotguns around and the rear trigger from one could be cut off and the lower section fit to the one in your rifle and tig welded to it.After cleaning, polishing and hardening(if necessary), the repair should be unnoticeable. I suspect you can find a blank mainspring and sear for sale somewhere.I suggest you try the source Axel mentioned for a rear sight on the other thread. If that fails, maybe one of our members that has a first model Aydt would be willing to photocopy the parts from theirs, and show actual dimensions on the copy, for you. With this, you should be able to either make or have the parts made and fit up. "nothing is so broken that it can't be fixed".
Mike

[PatBig]

Thanks, I followed Axel's lead and I have a rear sight now, some work to be done on it before it fits but it should be OK. I miss the front sight but I can fix something. The spring I am not worried about, I can make one. The sear is the tricky part. A picture or better as you suggest one with the dimensions would be very helpful.

[PatBig]

BTW Mike what bullet mould do you use for your 7.6mm/.312 groove rifles? I thought I could use my 32-40 mould but at .321 the bullets won't do I think.

[mike ford]

Pat,
That particular rifle has had the chamber messed up by being rechambered to 30-30 and the neck opened up to take one brand of 32 Win Spec. ammo, but was seeningly used with another brand that really ran the pressures up.This caused it to be hard to open so when I got it, it needed work. I fired it with one of my handloads for my other 8.15x46R with .319"dia(sized)cast 32-40 bullet( this is how I found the messed up chamber).When I get it back, I intend to shoot it with shortened 30-30 cases(shortened enough to avoid 2 dia neck), and .319 or .318"sized version of that same bullet.If it shoots, fine, if not, I will try a version or two .312" jacketed bullets( 100gr pistol bullet,150 gr 303 bullet,etc).This rifle is for hunting( Tip Up) so jacketed bullets could be useful, but yours isn't for hunting, so cast would be better. Just size your 32-40 bullet to whatever dia. will fit into a fired case.I would guess the barrel is small, but the chamber is likely normal.
Mike

[PatBig]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I tried in vain to figure out what the mainspring should look like, based on the drawing and picture in Alte Scheibenwaffen. It looks like the spring is crescent shaped with the apex against the breechblock, but what's holding it on the forward end? The sort of fork in the lever isn't in contact any any stage, so while I can see two likely contact points it won't work without a third one forward. Is it held in place by the fore arm? There are three small slabs of what seems to be lead where the contact point would be, but it shows little sign that the spring had been resting against it. On the other hand the lead is a bit corroded and the spring may have been gone for decades. The stock cleaned nicely, no longer the sooty black.
breech-lever-together-web.jpg

[Axel E]

I don't see any "crescent shaped mainspring with the apex against the breechblock" in any of the Aydt Action As your rifle is an Aydt copy (no "Aydt patent" or "Original Aydt" inscription on breechblock) made by another than Haenel, there are two possibilities. As you have access to "Alte Scheibenwaffen Vol.1", look at pages 245 and 306.
The original Aydt had a flat mainspring, keyed into the hammer, the front end bearing on the knuckle at the breechblock pivot pin hole, page 244,255.
Many Aydt type 1 copies have a V-mainspring just like the Aydt Reform type II, shown on page 306. You have to take the hammer out to look if there is a keyway for the flat spring in it's front or a step for the lower arm of a V-spring.

[PatBig]

There's no keyway on the hammer and if you look at the picture in my last post closely there's a small step, a piece of metal protruding from the hammer, where the spring would rest. So I think it's a V spring, thanks

[PatBig]

Shame on me, there is a keyway indeed, and the little piece of metal I thought was sort of a step is in fact what remains of the original mainspring. It's exactly identical to the picture on page 246 of the book. So after a fruitful Sunday I have brazed on a new trigger lever and the set triggers assembly works perfectly, and I have made a mainspring that will probably need some refining - it's very stiff - but it's in place and looks like it can do the job. The next step is the sear, I need to find a piece of metal for it. I have a very nice period rear sight bought on the web from Germany that will need some adjusting before it fits, and no front sight but the right pieces of metal to make one. So after some self inflicted uncertainty it looks like I could shoot my rifle within a couple of weeks if I can make a proper sear. I slugged the barrel and a bullet from the Lyman mould I use for my 32-40 Win 1885 will work. 30-30 brass is a perfect fit when shortened about 5 mils.

[mike ford]

Pat,
It looks like you have it all worked out now, good for you. Good luck, keep us informed.
Mike

[PatBig]

Well, things went better, or rather faster, than expected. I made a new front sight and blued it, fitted a period diopter found in Germany, brazed on a replacement trigger lever, made a new sear and spring exactly using the Alte Scheibenwaffen drawing scaled to size and printed, and after many failed attempts from scrap pieces of steel made a temporary mainspring from a hacksaw blade bent double and tempered. I dry fired the rifle a few times for testing, adjusted the sear a little bit, and the rifle is ready to shoot, once I polish and harden the new sear and make a proper mainspring from steel I ordered from Brownells. I even trimmed a 100 32-40 cases to length, they are an excellent fit. Thanks all for your advice
ce-cote-gauche-web.jpgce-dioptre-levier-web.jpgce-trigger-assembly-web.jpgguidon.jpg

[mike ford]

Pat,
Great. It looks good now, I would guess,bases on your work, that you will be able to make it shoot also.
Mike

[PatBig]

It shoots...very well!

First 50 cartridges, 30-30 Win cases trimmed to 46.5 mils and formed using a 32-40 die. Once fired they have a slight shoulder. The bullet is also 32-40 the one I use in my Win 1885. Lyman mold .319 and 165 grains. The load is 14 grains of N120, quite tame but apparently enough power. After some adjustments below are the last 5 shots at 110 yards, the bigger holes, the others are 22's. A couple of small things to fix, the bead on the front sight is a tad too large, the set triggers needs adjusting, but overall very happy with the first afternoon at the shooting range. Thanks all for your help and advice.
100m.jpg