"Unmarked" Stiegele Martini-action Schuetzen Rifle

[Old No7]

Waidmannsheil to all! I just posted some brief info and 2 quick pix over in the New Members section, as I just joined here today. I'm here due to my recent acquisition of a German Schuetzen rifle.

Thanks to this site and others, I've learned that my "unmarked" Germanic Schuetzen rifle was probably made by "C. Stiegele of Munich". I'll share how I came to that conclusion later, but before I do, here's a repeat of the brief description and images of it...

The rifle is chambered in an "unknown" 8mm (for now) -- but most likely it's an 8.15X46R; it has a 30” tapered octagon barrel, with no maker’s marks on the receiver or barrel anywhere (I looked everywhere!), a heavy checkered Schuetzen buttstock with large cheek rest, thumb rest on the right side, a Schuetzen buttplate & lever, double-set triggers, original Schuetzen tang sight (with a large 2.125” disc), pinhead ramp front sight (removable) with wings, and sling swivels on the barrel and butt.





The receiver and block both have the crowned B & U proof marks, while the barrel has crowned B, U and G marks. Other bottom barrel flat markings include the letters "MM" ahead of the underlug that secures the forearm, and behind it the serial # is stamped (and on the receiver), that's followed by a "6.24" date code (June 1924), and it was number "657" to be proofed that year with the bore at "7.6mm", which I believe was the smoothbore size before rifling. (I'm new to old German guns, but put all that together after several hours of research.)

The barrel is 1" across just before the receiver and tapers down to 13/16" at the muzzle. My initial bore measurements using a 0.314" lead 32 S&W SWC (no, not the best tool...) show the lands may be 0.307" with the grooves at 0.314". I thought those are much tighter than what I've read the typical 8mm Schuetzen cartridge would run -- but I just read on this site tonight that smaller size is expected, due to the "7.6mm" marking. But I do need to redo that measurement more carefully later.

Here's an image of a documented Stiegele/Munich Martini, and the screws of the receiver match all of mine exactly, as does the top tang which is screwed to both the wood buttstock and rear of the action, on top of which the sight is attached.



I need to do a chamber cast to confirm the dimensions, and one screw securing the buttstock is missing, but I can fix that easy enough.

Vielen danke.

Old No7

[mike ford]

Old No7,
It is doubtful that your rifle was made by Stiegel or even marketed by them. The proof marks you described seem to be from Zella-Mehilis Proof House ( note the use of a ledger number 657). If this is the case, the MM likely is the mark of Max Moeller, a noted local barrel maker. Makers often made guns "for the trade" and offered them to be sold by others. They were often marked by the firm that marketed them, but often not marked. Stiegel is known to have marked theirs, per the advert above. Consequently, I believe both your rifle and the Stiegel were made by some maker in or near Zella-Mehlis, at least the actions were. Then the Stiegel was marked by them, and whoever got yours didn't mark it. This then could answer why the actions are the same. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time and I'm sure someone will correct me. Also, my opinion is based on your description of the proof marks rather than photos.
The bullet diameter of 8.15x46R is normally counted as .318"( not counting any "stop ring"), but the barrels vary greatly. The .314" you measured is consistent with a barrel marked 7.6mm. One of my rifles is marked 7.6mm also and it "slugs" .312". A difference of .002" between the two barrels with the same proof bore diameter is not shocking at all. The use of "tight" barrels in this caliber (and others) is very common.
If the replacement part that was in the rifle doesn't work, it may have been a "proof part" like you suggested doing your self. It is very hard for me to believe anyone would make the actual part from aluminum. In my opinion you have the procedure to make the part pretty much in hand. From my experience, the type jig you propose will save you a lot of time and agitation. Parts such as this were often surface hardened, but if you want to through harden it, I see no reason not to. I would suggest you heat it until it will not attract a magnet and quench it in oil. If you harden it at home, and your wife is not there, you can "draw" it in your home oven( after polishing)at about 450 degrees F, for about an hour. If your brother in law has heat treating facilities in his machine shop he will likely harden it for you. He will also likely have "Casenit" if you decide to surface harden it.
Mike

[Axel E]

Apparently your rifle was made "for the trade" by the same Zella - Mehlis shop that supplied Stiegele too. At least the rifle was proofed by the Zella - Mehlis proofhouse and MM is the well known barrelmaker Max Moeller, Forstgasse 7, Zella - Mehlis. As MM made complete rifles too post-WW1 besides making barrels for most other Z-M gunmakers, he may have supplied the camplete rifle to some country gunshop.

[Old No7]

Vielen danke to Mike and Axel.

Old No7

Edited to add:
After making a successful "proof part", I paid a gunsmith to make up a steel toggle and install that into the action, and now the gun fires and shoots well.