Schuetzen Video

[Diz]

I just watched the Schuetzen video that was presented by the club and found it very interesting and informative. I was especially interested in having just purchased a Ballard Pacific #5 replica in 40-70 Sharps. It appeared to me that he was shooting black powder because I wouldn't think you could breach seat a bullet and shoot smokeless with any space between the case. I could be wrong here but it certainly didn't smoke very much. While my Ballard isn't configured exactly for Schuetzen I hope to try it in competition soon. Thanks to the club for the video.

Diz

[yamoon]

I shoot 16gr of IMR4227 behind a 203gr Barnett bullet in my 32-40 HiWall. I seat the bullet .020 ahead of the case. I must admit I don,t shoot it much anymore. About all of my shooting is done with one or the other of my German schuetzen rifles. I use a stop ring bullet in them.
Thanks Mike

[Diz]

Mike,

I'm glad you commented about your loading as Schuetzen and long range rifle are new territory for me. Especially with black powder. Do you use any filler or a wad to hold the smokeless powder? Does everything fill the case? I use 4227 in my 310 Cadet and it is remarkably accurate. My problem with the Ballard isn't shooting with smokeless as I have several for that, it's getting more BP in the 40-70 case. I don't have a bullet I can breach seat or the problem would be solved.

Thanks, Diz

[Axel E]

Obviously the American "Schuetzen" game differs somewhat from the German one. German rules did not allow any hand-/palm rests below the foreend. The start of the video and one of the old photos show Schuetzen rifles with long "target" scopes. Scopes were never admitted to German Schuetzen matches. Such long target scopes with external adjustments were unknown here. Keilerbüchsen, target rifles stocked like hunting rifles and fitted with hunting type scopes, were meant for matches of the German hunters associations, not related to the Schuetzen game. Granted, some of them had their scopes quick detachable and were equipped with additional detachable peep sights (forbidden in hunter's matches)too. So these Keilerbüchsen could be used in local Schuetzen matches too. Finally, breech seating a bullet is unknown here.

[yamoon]

Diz, Axel
I do not use a wad or filler, I point the muzzle up, load the charged case & slowly lower the gun into firing position. I worry about chamber ringing. I shoot only open sights. When shooting my German schuetzens, I am most comfortable with my off hand under the action against the trigger guard. I tried grasping the schnable, but that feels wrong. The 30" barrel on my HiWall is a #3 weight so it is quite heavy compared to all but one of my German guns, hand under the action would not work with it. I understand the German shooters upon seeing a palm rest, referred to it as a "manure fork".
Thanks Mike

[Diz]

Mike & Axel,

Breach seating bullets was unknown to me prior to reading some of Ned Roberts accounts of Schuetzen in the USA. Most of that was done with a case full of black powder or bulk smokeless and a wad to hold it in. Mike, I find your method very interesting and would like to discuss it further. Since we are not talking German guns perhaps a PM would be best.

Thanks, Diz

[Axel E]

When shooting my German schuetzens, I am most comfortable with my off hand under the action against the trigger guard. I tried grasping the schnable, but that feels wrong.

That's the way German target shooters hold their rifles too. Quite often they balance the rifle on thumb and fingers of their off hand, close to the action. On Schuetzen target rifles, most of the foreend with the Schnabel final is mostly decorative. Hunters, on the other hand, have use for the foreend of their Keilerbuechsen: The "roebuck" target is shot at standing, the rifle braced against an upright pole with the off hand. A wide, squarish target rifle style foreend is detrimental here, as your off hand has to grip both foreend and pole. The "fox" is shot at from prone, but offhand without any support for the rifle. Here you really ned the foreend. The "running boar" also needs gripping the foreend, as you have to swing the rifle. Only the "small standing boar" is shot standing offhand. Here some hunters prefer the "Schuetzen stance".

[Diz]

Axel,

Shooting the hunters targets seems to be a fairly complicated discipline and a lot of variables regarding the shooting stance. Could you tell me the distances to the targets you mention and how the match is usually shot?

Thanks, Diz

[Axel E]

Diz, the answer to your question will be an article for a future "Waidmannsheil!", to complicated for a short answer on a forum. A complete Hunter's association match consists of 5 shots each at the 3 stationary and 1 moving target, 20 rifle shots in all, + 15 clays, either international trap or international skeet. The Stationary Targets are shot at 100 meters, the running boar at 60 m.

[Diz]

Axel,

It seems like a very interesting event and I would like to read more about it in the 'Waidmannsheil". With the combination of game targets and clays it seems ideal for a drilling.

Regards, Diz

[sharps4590]

I watched the video, again. To my surprise I'd seen it before. Probably last fall when I bought my Schuetzen rifle and was looking for info on both the rifles and the matches. It's still good!!! I do wish there was a Schuetzen match close.

Axel, sounds like a very interesting article. Can't wait for it.

[yamoon]

No matches seems to be a problem in Kansas & Missouri. I just shoot alone, haven't seen another schuetzen shooter at Mill Creek rifle range in KC since the 90s
Mike

[sharps4590]

yamoon, me too unless someone happens to come out. I had mine out yesterday and put 20 rounds through it. I have never seen anyone shooting one around here or up at Jeff. City but 98% of my shooting is done at my house. I rarely go to a range.