Collath butterfly safety

[Bill Quillen]

My E A Merkel Collath looks identical to the gun on page 12 of G G C A no.45. The butterfly safety on my gun is just the opposite of the safe condition indicated on pages 14 and15 .
My gun is on safe when the wings are parallel to the barrels and are in firing position when at right angle to the barrels. The wings block the sight plane when parallel with the barrels.
Are the statements made about the safe position in G G C A correct?
My gun is a 16 bore E A Merkel serial 7367 probably dated 1885 to 1890 .

The receipt of the Collath booklet and reprinted catalog was certainly a welcome surprise after I had acquired this fine old gun. I am in awe of the workmanship and the Damascus barrels. I will try to get some pictures to share if I can get my wife to show me how include them.

Thanks Bill

[mike ford]

Bill,
I have no real experience with these, but I suggest you check closely to see if your safety can be disconnected, rotated 90 degrees, and reconnected.
Mike

[Axel E]

Bill, you are right. The author, the editor or the printer misplaced the captions! Indeed the usual "wing nut" safety works like yours. If you mount the gun with the safety on, lengthwise, the front wing will block a clear view over the rib. This gives a warning: Your gun is still on "safe", so you cannot shoot. Sorry, when proof reading, I was mostly concerned with the texts, especially my own, and did not scrutinize the captions of pictures supplied by others.

[Greg47]

Bill, you are right. The author, the editor or the printer misplaced the captions! Indeed the usual "wing nut" safety works like yours. If you mount the gun with the safety on, lengthwise, the front wing will block a clear view over the rib. This gives a warning: Your gun is still on "safe", so you cannot shoot. Sorry, when proof reading, I was mostly concerned with the texts, especially my own, and did not scrutinize the captions of pictures supplied by others.

I think the klups book also has it backwards iirc.
Greg

[Bill Quillen]

Thanks to all who replied, especiallty Axel

I have another question about my Collath.
The opening lever on my gun rotates to the right( clockwise) . I note in the article that some of the guns rotated in the opposite direction. Is there a reason why some guns open differently?

The conical finial in front of the forearm is missing on my gun. It is obvious where it was once soldered in place.. I realize that it is remote that such an item could be found but this is an unusually resourceful group so I will ask. Does anyone know where this item might be found?

Once again thanks to all who responded.

Bill

[Axel E]

You may find hints to my opinion about Klups' books here: http://www.germanguns.com/upload/sho...erence-between......
On almost all Collath and the predecessor guns the underlever swings out to the left (gun seen from top), while on most German Lefaucheux type break open guns it swings to the right. (gun seen from below, Collath levers indeed turn clockwise, Lefaucheux counterclockwise) But everything is possible, as most Teschner-Collath guns were made to order. Maybe the first owner of your gun was left handed or he had other guns and did not want to change his habits? I have also seen a Collath gun with the underlever bent back over the triggerguard, like on Lancaster and Jones action guns.
The chance of finding a foreend final that fits your gun is nil imho, as these were hand filed one by one and fitted to the individual gun. Making one is not impossible if you can do it yourself, but it will be time and money consuming if you have to farm it out. It may be lathe turned from some piece of common steel junk of sufficient diameter, then filed and fitted to your barrels. On my Collath cape gun barrels it is not soldered on, but fastened on the foreend hanger with a small screw.

[Bill Quillen]

Collath cocking arm rotation and forearm finial attachment information

Thanks for the information Axel. This gun and the use of these threads is all new to me and I seem to put things in the wrong place l
The attachment of the finial with a screw is a good suggestion . I have a machinist working on filing out a replacement but the attachment with solder made me nervous about loosening the ribs.
Is there a picture available which shows how the screw attachment is made?









oTE=Axel E;4257]You may find hints to my opinion about Klups' books here: http://www.germanguns.com/upload/sho...erence-between......
On almost all Collath and the predecessor guns the underlever swings out to the left (gun seen from top), while on most German Lefaucheux type break open guns it swings to the right. (gun seen from below, Collath levers indeed turn clockwise, Lefaucheux counterclockwise) But everything is possible, as most Teschner-Collath guns were made to order. Maybe the first owner of your gun was left handed or he had other guns and did not want to change his habits? I have also seen a Collath gun with the underlever bent back over the triggerguard, like on Lancaster and Jones action guns.
The chance of finding a foreend final that fits your gun is nil imho, as these were hand filed one by one and fitted to the individual gun. Making one is not impossible if you can do it yourself, but it will be time and money consuming if you have to farm it out. It may be lathe turned from some piece of common steel junk of sufficient diameter, then filed and fitted to your barrels. On my Collath cape gun barrels it is not sdered on, but fastened on the foreend hanger with a small screw.[/QUOTE]

[Axel E]

The attachment of the finial with a screw is a good suggestion . I have a machinist working on filing out a replacement but the attachment with solder made me nervous about loosening the ribs.
Is there a picture available which shows how the screw attachment is made?

I tried to disassemble the thing and found: The final is indeed soldered to the barrels. A small 3mm screw through the flange, parallel to the barrels and into the "foreend hanger", is merely additional.

[mike ford]

billq,
I have watched my German gunsmith friends solder many clawmount bases to drilling and other combination barrels. They always wired ( "tie wire" works well, since it won't burn in two) The ribs on both sides of the base( in your case-finial) to keep them from comming loose from the heat. They use small pieces of steel,or rod to transfer the force of the wire to the ribs themselves and prevent damage to them or the barrels.They used propane torch rather than oxy-acetylene, which can be too hot. Your gunsmith can also do this also, but understand that it will likely have to be reblued.BTW, the bases(finial) were also wired to hold them inplace/level, during the process.
Mike

[Bill Quillen]

Thanks Axel and Mike for the response.
I have a good picture off the Internet of the finial and will show it to the machinist who is making the part. If it looks and fits properly I am going to need an experienced gunsmith to do the solder work. I wonder if the screw should also be used?. It appears that this piece has a history of coming loose and the screw was added as reinforcement.
Any suggestion as to a gunsmith would be appreciated. I have used the gunsmith at Steyr Arms in Trussville Alabama several times with good results but he only works on Gebruder Merkel guns . I don't think E A Merkel would qualify for their attention.

Have a good Thanksgiving,

Bill

[mike ford]

billq,
Since you mentioned Trussvile, do you live in Alabama? If so, and you live close enough to the Ga.line, I have a friend in Cusseta Ga(on the other side of Ft.Genning from Columbus) that can help you. His name is Pat Felix and has done several jobs for me. BTY, sometimes company gunsmiths do "side work" at home.You also might try R.Findlay Smith in Birmingham Al, originalmags@bellsouth.net. He hasn't done any work for me, but I have seen some at gunshows.
Mike