F.W. Vandrey Simson Jäger Herold Drilling

[jillandsam303]

Just added a Simson Jäger Herold marketed by Vandrey to the drilling collection.

It's 16x16x???? with a Deitrich Apel's "chopper lump" barrel.

The seller guessed it was 8x48R caliber. I just tried to figure it out on the proof marks and am stumped. I thought I'd ask you and the forum.

Also the seller felt the proof date was in the 20's but I can't find anything that looks like a proof date other than "52".

There's an interesting "1" on the under the forearm.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Sam HershfieldP1110171.jpgP1110173.jpgP1110174.jpg

[mike ford]

Sam,
In my opinion, your drilling is chambered for 6.5x 52R, which is the metric designation for the 25-35 Winchester. At one time this was a pretty popular cartridge in Germany, especially in areas that had Reh(Roe)deer, but little or no large game. I said it is my opinion because the "6" in the 6,2(bore, not groove or bullet, diameter) is not very clear. It was proofed after 1912, because it has bore diameter and case length in mm. It was proofed before 1923, because that was when Suhl started dating them. Note, this is one of a couple German 6.5 mm cartridges that use bullets smaller than the common .264", which is really 6.7mm. The .257" bullet diameter of the 25-35 Win. is very close to .256", which is 6.5mm.

[jillandsam303]

Mike, amazing work! Very interesting. I'll have a chamber cast done this summer. Thanks so much!

Sam

[mike ford]

Sam,
You are welcome. I'm sure you will have many years of fun with your drilling.
Mike

[Axel E]

Mike is right. The Drilling is indeed chambered for the 6.5x52R aka .25-35 Winchester. The land diameter short of 6.3 mm (add two times the usual groove depth of .1mm to arrive at 6.5 mm = .256") and the case length of 52 mm are unequivocal. So is the service load info: KmG = copper jacket bullet max 8 gramm = 123 gr (conveniently rounded up from 7.7 g = 119 gr). There was no other cartridge fitting these markings known in Germany. All other "6.5 mm" cartridges known here used larger and heavier steel jacketed bullets = StmG. IMHO making a chamber cast is unnecessary here, just get some American .25-35 Winchester loads and go to a range.

[jillandsam303]

Wonderful news. A currently available cartridge. Thank you so much Mike and Axel! Now...any way to tighten down the proof year?P1110173.jpgP1110174.jpg

[jillandsam303]

Axel and Mike, a few more of the "Chopper lumps" that might help in the identification. P1110199.jpgP1110205.jpg

[mike ford]

Sam,
Unfortunately there is no way I can date it any closer than the range, I gave above. The only thing the additional photos did was reinforce my opinion that it is a nice drilling and wish I had bought it when I had a chance. This only proves, once again, "if you snooze, you lose".
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Mike, thanks! it is a beauty. Here are 4 of my "babies"...so far. Couldn't fit the Franz Sodia and Trumpf Dural in the picture. I've clearly got the dreaded "drilling disease".P1110224.jpg

[mike ford]

Sam,
Very nice drillings, to you hunt with them regularly? It's bad when you are "po as dirt" and have "drilling disease".
Mike

[John]

BTW: Simpson is just the importer.

[mike ford]

That is correct, note the difference in spelling-Simpson Ltd is the importer from Galesburg Ill. and the German maker was Simson, with out the "P".
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Mike, I'm a collector, not a hunter. You tagged me..."Po old drilling boy tryin' to trade his way up to a Vierling"

[mike ford]

Sam,
Good luck, vierling owners are very very proud of them.
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Mike, you incented me to try the Merkel. So I took it to the Trap range today where it really got some attention (especially since I took it there with the giant Steiner scope on it).

I shot 25 rounds and miraculously hit about 15 the first time out with the gun. (shooting without the Steiner) of course.

Really felt good to shoot.

Sam