New Member. Help With Combination Over Under Shotgun Rifle

[BillK]

Good afternoon gentlemen. I slugged the bore and it measures .318, as suspected. I have a question regarding chamber casting. How do you avoid the potential problem of the molten cerrosafe running into the extractor and other possible crevices as I fill the chamber cast to the to of the rim surface? (This would be my first chamber cast.) BillK

[mike ford]

BillK,
The barrels should be taken off, then you can push the extractor back down. The fit is likely tight enough that you won't have a problem, I never have. If you do, you won't have any problem melting it out, it takes less heat than boiling water.
Mike

[BillK]

Thank you Mike.

[Nathaniel Myers]

Depending on the construction, the extractor may not be difficult to pull out. I know when I did a chamber cast on my Alfa drilling I pulled the extractor.

As Mike mentioned, it is not difficult to melt out if you need to.

[algmule]

Hello

In 1887 Georg Greiss had a "Munitionsfabrik" in Rosenheimerstrasse 11, München, and in 1888 he had a "Waffen-und Munitionsgeschäft" at/in Thal 50 (address?), München.

Kind regards
Peter

[BillK]

In anticipation of my new rifle to be chambered for the 8x57R/360 caliber, how hard is it to obtain cases? Various searches i did resulted in only one available 8x57R/360 case source made by Hornaber and sold by Huntington. It also states the case has a small flash hole. Is that a problem? Is anyone familiar with the case quality?
A lot of you make 8x57R/360 cases from 9.3X72 cases, although those are becoming scarce and expensive and not everyone recommends it for those reasons. Does this option create problems with the thickness of the case neck?
What other options do I have in my attempt to get this old high-quality rifle up and running again? Keep in mind I am a novice, with almost zero experience in cartridge reloading and with no assembeld tools yet. Most of my reloading knowledge is in shotshell reloading. BillK

[mike ford]

BillK,
I also have a drilling in 3x57R/360; I use original berdan primed cases, which I don't believe would be a good solution for you. During the process of working with mine, I did make up and fireform an acceptable substitute case. I full length sized an original length( 2.125") 38-55 case in my 8x57( Lyman 8mm Mauser) sizing die, with the expander stem/button removed. Fireforming shows this case to be a useable case. While it is a little short( 2.245"vs 2.124"), the bullets can be loaded "out" to the same overall length as a factory cartridge. There is plenty of neck to hold the bullet, because the drilling doesn't feed from a magazine and is a single shot. Even though my drilling was intended for .318" bullets, with the factory or 38-55 cases, I can use .3215" bullets( I'm still deciding which dia. is best for me); but if I was using cut down 9.3x72R cases, I wouldn't likely be able to do this. Of course, cutting down 9.3 cases is the "school solution", and will work perfectly well with due consideration for neck thickness and bullet diameter. I too am hesitant to shorten the 72 mm cases this much, if there is another solution. That is a decision you have to make yourself, maybe you have plenty of 72mm cases you don't need for something else. I am planning to write an article about the 8x57R/360 and 8x58R S&S, but don't yet have access to an 8x58R. As part of this, I intend to tool up and show how to make cases from .303 British and 30-40 Krag cases. I believe the commercially available preformed cases are made that way( not Hornaber), as are the available 2.5" cases for certain Sharps cartridges( but will work here also). Starline makes original length 38-55 cases, but you may have to search for them. I make a point of the " original length", because currently loaded 38-55 ammunition is made up in 30-30 length (2.080") cases. This current length case would leave a neck too short to be useable.
Mike

[BillK]

Hello Forum Members. I was able to do a chamber casting today. Based on the casting measurements and the research I did, it appears the gun is chambered for the 8x58R Sauer cartridge. This confirms it is not 8X57JR or 8X57R/360 as initially thought. I have attached 2 pics of the chamber casting. What are your opinions of my findings/research? How hard or easy is to find or make cases for this cartridge? As always, I appreciate your thoughts, comments, and suggestions. BillK
Chamber Casting1 8X58R Sauer.jpg
Chamber Casting2 8x58R Sauer.jpg

[osekerschan]

Hi Bill,
Bought 9.3x72R cases and dies from Buffalo Arms. My machinist friend reduced the rim thickness by a few thousands and shortened the cases. Loaded with Speer 170 grain 32 Special bullets reduced to .318 and IMR 4759 using 32-40 data. Tried using 32-40 and 8mm dies but was not happy with the results.
hans

[osekerschan]

Hi Bill,
Bought 9.3x72R cases and dies from Buffalo Arms. My machinist friend reduced the rim thickness by a few thousands and shortened the cases. Loaded with Speer 170 grain 32 Special bullets reduced to .318 and IMR 4759 using 32-40 data. Tried using 32-40 and 8mm dies but was not happy with the results.
hans

[Diz]

Billk,

Nice chamber mold and it does appear to be an 8x58R. Buffalo Arms lists loaded ammo and brass but both are unavailable at the moment. Graf & Sons lists Bertram brass as in stock but expensive. I believe it can be made from 9.3x72R but the head and rim will be slightly small but workable. A fairly straight forward cartridge conversion.

Thanks, Diz

[mike ford]

Billk,
The brass I mentioned for the 8x57R/360 (38-55 Win./Ballard, original length), is the brass my late friend and mentor Gene Enterkin used for his 8x58R S&S. He used .308" bullets, bumped up to .318", but osekerschan's solution for .318" bullets is the same as I have used for years and is much easier/better. Gene had 8x58R dies, but absent the correct dies, I would FL size in 32-40 file/trim die or FL sizer, fireform to fit the chamber, and load with 8x57 dies( without the expander)used as neck sizing dies. If the neck is thin enough or the 8x57 sizer doesn't reduce the necks enough, you may need to necksize with something like 32 S&W or 32 ACP dies. Of course, it depends on you, or someone you know, having these other dies available.
Mike

[BillK]

I have been doing a lot of research and have been looking at a lot of photos of combination guns (and drillings) and I have not come across in any other ones exhibiting a straight/English stock and scroll engraving like mine. Does that make it a bit unusual? Makes me wonder who the original owner was. What is your experience on that? BillK

[mike ford]

The features of this gun are a little unusual, but not "earth shaking", more "really nice to have". I know of no way to ID the original owner, but whoever it was, seemed to have ordered it to fit his personal preferences. I have no way of knowing this, but I suspect the gun was made with another set of barrels, in O/U shotgun configuration( now lost forever).
Mike

[BillK]

Thank you Mike for your thoughts. In a Google search I stumbled upon the sample issue No 44, 2012 of The Journal of the German Gun Collectors Association which was dedicated to combination guns. I read your very interesting article of A Combination of All Seasons. The article that interested me the most was the last one named "Adventures With a Combination Gun:..." written by Dennis Hrusosky, featuring his Adam Schork combination gun. His gun has the same scope mount base as mine. I did not quite understand his process of modifying/attaching the scope to the original base. I wish there were a few more detailed pics showing how he did that. Do you know if Mr. Hrusoski visits the forum? He mentioned in the article that he lived in Illinois. I also live in Illinois. Any chances to connect with him? BillK