Help identify a Belgian shotgun

[haibin]

Belgian shotgun marks.jpg
Please help me identify a Belgian shotgun. I was not allowed to take pictures so a crude sketch is provided instead.
It is a side-by-side, bead front sight, solid rib, Greener's crossbolt, two triggers, Prince Wales grip, semi beaver tail foreend, extractor, boxlock, a cheekpiece, barrel length 75cm.
On the breech end of the solid rib are: GUSTAVE GENSCHOW & CO A.G."
On the outside of both barrels there "NTRO".
On top of the barrel at breech end there are trade makr of Dornheim A. G. GECADO in a diamond.
On trigger guard rear strap there are "Y1554"
Other proof marks please see the attachment.

From the marks I figure out it was proofed at Liege in 1930 (i in cursive) by Gaspard Dewilde (star over q), 12 gauge, modified choke, chamber 70mm, series number 18025. Ordered and distributed (in Germany?) by Dornheim company.

What I don't understand are: which year was it made by which company, or rather a guild gun. What is the meaning of "D 34" on the action flat? and JH in a oval? and the Y1554 on the trigger guard rear strap?

With best wishes,

Haibin Wang,
Beijing, China

[ellenbr]

The D on the water table might point to Dumoulin but I'd say his wares would wear the initials DF. Regarding the JH in an oval, switch to the initials HJ and see what mechanics that might conjure up.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[haibin]

Thanks a lot for your suggestion. I will contact the owner to get more information and a few photos if possible.

Are you familiar with other firearms such as pistols M1911A1 and steyr-solothurn s1-100 submachine gun? I saw a few recently and have some questions to iron out.

Best wishes,

Haibin

[ellenbr]

I've handled my fair share of 1911s and know just enough to be dangerous. And I've seen a Steyr MP34 or 2 so ask away.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Nathaniel Myers]

steyr-solothurn submachine guns have to be the most beautiful sub machine guns ever made. The intricate machining is exquisite.

[haibin]

Here are photos of 4 M1911A1. Please note the "B", "5", and "56" at the upper and front corner of the trigger guard. Also on one pistol there are "1911" and "1911A1", so I guess this was adapted from a 1911? In addition, can you tell the year of manufacture by the serial numbers?

Best regards,

Haibin5.jpg56.jpgB.jpgM1911.jpg

[mike ford]

You would likely get better information on another forum that deals with military weapons, especially American pistols. This forum is more likely to provide info for German sporting guns, eventhough some members may be familiar with military guns also.
Mike

[haibin]

Here are some photos of the Steyr-Solothurn s1-100 based on its structure. What is the gadget in front of the rear sight and what is the mark on the top of the receiver. Isthis an authentic one?

On one photo there are 3 smg in display. The top is a Chinese copy of MP18 in 1930, the middle is Steyr- Solothurn, and the bottom is a Lanchester MK1*.

Best wishes,
Haibinsteyr-solothurn s1-100.jpgaction.jpgbrass button.jpgmagazine port.jpgmark on receiver top.jpg

I've handled my fair share of 1911s and know just enough to be dangerous. And I've seen a Steyr MP34 or 2 so ask away.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

To learn something about the Steyr-Solothurn MP34, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_34 The logo on top of the receiver is a variation of the Rheinmetall company one, a square inside a circle. Rheinmetall was the owner of the small Solothurn factory and a large shareholder of the Steyr factory. Rheinmetall developed the MP34 from Schmeisser's MP18 design. As under the conditions of the Versailles treaty they were not allowed to make submachine guns in Germany, they bought the small factory in Swiss Solothurn to have the MP 34 and other machine guns assembled there from parts made in Steyr. Co-founder and until 1921 head of the "Rheinmetall" company, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall was Heinrich Ehrhardt, 1840 – 1929, a German industrialist and inventor. Rheinmetall still is an armament industry. The main gun of the current US Abrams M1A2 battle tank,the M256 120 mm smoothbore, is a Rheinmetall design and made under licence in the USA. H.Ehrhardt was born very poor in Zella-Mehlis and was apprenticed as –guess what!- a gunsmith first. He held no less than 128 DRPatents to his name, ranging from a corkscrew to WW1 railway guns, from hand-powered metal saws to industrial processes, from bycicle and locomotive parts to automobiles. Though 61 of his patents were on metal processing and –forming, 21 were about firearms, artillery, shells and bullets.His factory in Eisenach was the fourth maker of automobiles in Germany from 1895, just after the pioneers Benz, Daimler and Duerkopp.He invented the deep-drawing of sheet steel. His nickel-plated steel jackets were adopted by the German army for the M88 8x57 cartridge, so all the German ammo companies had to buy Rheinmetall machinery and licenses to make bullet jackets. The germans were wedded to steel jackets, even for hunting, until the 1980s, hence the "StmG" marking of the old German proofmarks. In 1895, two years in advance to the French, he invented the first Quick Firing Gun with a recoil mechanism. The German army was not yet interested, but Rheinmetall exported such artillery to Norway, Russia and many more countries. In 1900, as a stop-gap during the 2nd Boer War, the British bought lots of the QF 15pounder "Ehrhardt" field guns.Ehrhardt's most imprtant Patent was for forging seamless steel tubes, DRP 67921 of 1891: He inserted a redhot, square steel bar into a cylindrical die and pushed a pointed rod lengthwise through this bar. The corners of the bar, supported by the circumference of the die, prevented it being bent or slugged up by the pressure, while the flat sides could expand against the rest of the die wall. The resulting steel tube can then be drawn or rolled out to less wall thickness and increased length.Of course, Ehrhardt had patented the machinery to do so too. Rheinmetall used this process for making all sorts of steel tubing, from lightweight axles to cannon barrels.The importance of this process, a square rod in a round die, for the success of the company, made Rheinmetall adopt the "square in circle" as the Rheinmetall logo. The gadget in front of the rear sight is a safety which blocks the bolt either in the open or closed position. The gadget on top of the sideways magazine chute allows the magazine to be loaded with stripper clips.

[ellenbr]

Axel, you have my heartfelt thanks for steppin' prior to my getting around to it.

Ford, I was not aware that you were the forum police??? I'd like to see your badge & badge number. Give this fella a single off the topic thread and I will agree should it become multiple non-Germanic Sporting weapons threads, it might be an issue. If you want to direct him off-site - elsewhere, assist him by narrowing the possibility of sites. If you want pure, orthodox Germanic sporting fare only then so be it, but don't let me catch you adding any info to a non-Germanic sporting fare thread in a do as I say protocol, rather than do as I do. My badge number is naught - naught by the way.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Mashed my finger in a conibear making it a bit difficult to speed type, but Ford since I'm posting this image of an American beaver of approx 22kg that I'm skinning with a German Puma & piece of obsidian accompanied by an all American Boy & an German Shorthair, are you going to bust my chops seeing it isn't pure Germanic Sporting Weapons oriented????




Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[mike ford]

Raimey,
Take a deep breath and see if your blood pressure will normalize. Read my post again, I didn't say he had to, I just said he would get better info about American Military Pistols. I don't have any more control over him than you have over me.
Mike

[germanguns1234]

We are all members of the forum police and we are all here to help. Be polite, be kind, share your knowledge and remember that other forums may serve better than ours.

[Diz]

Axel,

Fantastic bit of history! Thanks very much for the information it is very interesting.

Thanks, Diz