C. Leberecht Amberg

[Axel E]

Mike made a typo: The Barthelmes/Leberecht rifle was not proofed September 1909, but September 1904.

[Steve Whitley]

hynz,

Your great uncle's discharge papers (DD 214) should have a record of units with which he served as well as major campaigns. If no one in the family has a copy, it can be obtained (as can a one-time replacement of his awards/medals) through the government. Local VFW, Legion or veterans' group can help you with addresses or points of contact.

Steve

[mike ford]

hynz,
Axel is correct about the date, sorry. Steve mentioned a DD 214, but unless your uncle stayed in the Army several years afrer the war, he would have been given some other document instead. I think it would be a "War Department" document, since the "Department of Defense"(DD) wasn't formed until later.The suggestion is sound, however. If you check with the local American Legion or VFW, you might find some other member that knows his unit.Sadly, there are not likely to be many WW2 vets left in his Post. In my own Post,there are only two left that can get around.Another source of information would be the Funeral Director that handled the burial.If the VA provided a flag and/or Headstone/Footstone, he would likely have been the designated rep. for the family.
Mike

[ellenbr]

pagoda AH - Adolf Heym(some give August?) of Friedrich Wilhelm Heym. Curious if the Heim to Heym sourcing was along family lines.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

pagoda AH - Adolf Heym(some give August?) of Friedrich Wilhelm Heym. Curious if the Heim to Heym sourcing was along family lines.

Why not Albert Häfner, August Happ, Alfred Hauche (2x), August Häuser, August Heinz, Albert Hellmuthshäuser, Alfred Hertlein, Albert Heym of C.Heym, Adolf Heym (another, independent of FWHeym!), August Heym (there were about 50 Heyms in Suhl, besides F.W.Heym), Adolf Hoffmann, Albert Holland, August Hübner, Artur Hübner? All these "AH" gunmakers were active in Suhl at the time this gun was made. And, note the spelling: Besides the many Heym's there were 7 gunmakers spelled Heim in Suhl too. Though there was no A. Heim, any family relationship Simon Heim to the Friedrich Wilhelm Heym family with the sons and grandsons Adolf, August Wilhelm and Adolf again is highly unlikely IMHO.

[Axel E]

Simon Heim opened his own gunshop at Färberstr.36 (later moved to 39 and 32), Nürnberg in 1908. The gunshop existed well into the 1950s. Before 1908 he worked for Valentin Kern, Nürnberg. He sourced most, if not all, of "his" guns from the Suhl, Zella-Mehlis and Liege guntrade.
"Flusstahl Krupp Essen" is "Fluid Steel by the Krupp steelworks in Essen on Ruhr".

[ellenbr]

Why not, because of the Pagoda. Observe grasshopper & learn.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Steve Whitley]

hynz,
Axel is correct about the date, sorry. Steve mentioned a DD 214, but unless your uncle stayed in the Army several years afrer the war, he would have been given some other document instead. I think it would be a "War Department" document, since the "Department of Defense"(DD) wasn't formed until later.The suggestion is sound, however. If you check with the local American Legion or VFW, you might find some other member that knows his unit.Sadly, there are not likely to be many WW2 vets left in his Post. In my own Post,there are only two left that can get around.Another source of information would be the Funeral Director that handled the burial.If the VA provided a flag and/or Headstone/Footstone, he would likely have been the designated rep. for the family.
Mike

Mike,
As former "All State" Quartermaster of my VFW post, it was my duty to research service records and assist veterans and their families with obtaining said records. I know of what I speak. I was not suggesting that hynz try to find someone from the same unit, which you seem to infer. A request for service records is generically lumped into the category of the more recent "DD 214" category to simplify getting him to the proper source. I have located government service records for many with service back to (and before) World War I. I have not retained the files I had as Post Quartermaster, or I would post address and points of contact for same, or even a copy of the form to be used in the request. The Quartermaster at his local post WILL have that to offer him (if the person is doing their job properly), and he can get it there. I was not offering "in my opinion" information, but that which I KNOW FROM MUCH EXPERIENCE actually WORKS.
Steve

[ellenbr]

You know, I fancy a what works protocol. Something akin to an Ockham's Razor(lex parsimoniae - for your latin lovers) approach. Stalwart forward with the protocol.

Cheers,


Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Where is Schoolmaster Friar Fred?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[mike ford]

hynz,
Since Steve has extensive specific experience tracking down service records, I suggest you count on his advice.
Steve, I wasn't suggesting finding a member or his military unit, I was guggesting a member of his VFW/AL post might know what military unit he was in, as a starting point.
Axel, funny you mentioned Valentine Kern; while trying to have a Val.Kern BF repaired, I learned the company might still be in business.It was said they may still be able to supply some parts.If so, I will let you know.
Mike

[Axel E]

Axel, funny you mentioned Valentine Kern; while trying to have a Val.Kern BF repaired, I learned the company might still be in business.It was said they may still be able to supply some parts.If so, I will let you know.
Mike

AFAIK no gunshop named Kern exists any more. At least, no phone directory or internet search shows one. Son Karl Kern was last mentioned in the 1930s. Probably bombed out in WW2. Google Earth at least shows an obviously post-war building at Kern's old address, Theresienplatz 8, Nürnberg. As Kern, as usual, had "his" guns made by the Zella-Mehlis and Suhl guntrade, Iseriously doubt they have any parts for pre-war guns. But I wish you lots of luck.

[hynz]

Thanks to all of you for your help identifying these two guns and for your military history advice. I also noticed in Ancestry.com that military records are available there as well for a monthly fee. I found another relative in Tucson that knows about the military hstory and some history of the guns so I plan to "interview" them as a starting point. Your largest success however is in creating my interest in these guns and convincing me to keep them and hand them down. Thanks again.

[mike ford]

Axel,
I will see(if he is home)my friend that told me that, next month when I have my next Doctor's app., I will ask him again.
Mike