French Darne with Suhl Proof Marks, from the Suhl City Firearms Collection

[Vol423]

You folks might appreciate my Darne that bears Suhl proof marks from March, 1941. The gun was in the Suhl city Firearms Collection, prior to its being liberated by an American, I'm guessing. I acquired it from a fellow who bought it from a WW2 veteran's widow.

It is interesting what the gun's proof marks tell us, and how that is intertwined with world history. Here is the link: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=458012356

[chapmen]

Hi, the Darne itself is not very rare. The most interesting point is that it was an part of the pre 1945 collection in Suhl. The gun shows only the Suhl sign with date, but was not (re)proofed in Suhl.
It would be an great story for an bring back in the todays Suhl collection.

[Vol423]

It's for sale but they'll have to pay for it this time.

[chapmen]

"They have to pay this time" ?

I dont think that someone is interested in Suhl to buy something that was definetely stolen.

[Vol423]

With Germany occupying France in 1941, one would be hard pressed to prove that the gun was obtained by Suhl in a free commercial exchange.

[MARAT]

I 've seen Darne type of gun with only German or Austrian proof marks.

[Vol423]

I can see free commercial exchanges in which the Darne company sold unproofed guns to Germany or Austria, to be proofed in the receiving country. But with French proofs and the Suhl proof house mark and 341 date, this gun is not one of those cases.

[sauerfan]

"They have to pay this time" ?

I dont think that someone is interested in Suhl to buy something that was definetely stolen.

Well, from a Legal point of view, it wasn’t stolen, but captured – that’s a big difference.

The gun in question obviously was captured at least one time: when the US boys visited Suhl in 1945. Maybe it was captured by German troops in 1940/41 in France (or in another country occupied by German troops). Interestingly, the Germans did the very sme what the Allies did after May 1945: all Germany had to surrender their guns. In France it was the same:

http://www.armes-ufa.com/spip.php?article809

The confiscated guns partially were sold; i. a. to German Army hunters:

"Der am 20.4.43 begonnene Verkauf von 10 000 Jagdgewehren aus franz. Besitz an Wehrmachtjäger konnte mit dem 31.12.43 abgeschlossen werden"

(Middle of page under headline „Jagdnutzung“).

Translation: "Sale of 10,000 hunting guns, which started on April 20, 1943, was terminated on December 31, 1943."

So, yes, it is possible, the Darne came to Suhl in 1941 as being one of the seized guns – like the Darne on the back of a German Luftwaffe trooper.

Regards

Martin

[chapmen]

I can see free commercial exchanges in which the Darne company sold unproofed guns to Germany or Austria, to be proofed in the receiving country. But with French proofs and the Suhl proof house mark and 341 date, this gun is not one of those cases.

I dont see any suhl proofmark- only the sign of the proofhouse and date?

[Axel E]

Already posted on another forum:

Those are not complete Suhl proofmarks as the eagle/N mark is missing. The gun merely Shows the date and the Suhl proofhouse identification stamp. I suspect it was merely sent to the proofhouse to check if the French proofs were valid. As they were, the Suhl proofhouse did not deem a reproof necessary and merely put their mark and date on for confirmation.

[Vol423]

As I said, if the Suhl city would like to buy it, it is for sale.

[chapmen]

Darne side by sides are around 500 euro in germany.
So i dont think that its history will make 2,5k +.

[Vol423]

So much for celebrating your history!