Single Shot Mauser 88 Stalking Rifle

[JDZincavage]

Photos of rifle:

http://zincavage.org/88MauserStalkingRifle1.jpg

http://zincavage.org/88MauserStalkingRifle2.jpg

http://zincavage.org/88MauserStalkingRifle3.jpg

http://zincavage.org/88MauserStalkingRifle4.jpg

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http://zincavage.org/ProofMarks1.JPG

http://zincavage.org/ProofMarks2.JPG

http://zincavage.org/SerialNumber.JPG

Unknown chambering, 8x57J suspected. Needs some restoration work having been inflicted in the past with amateur gunsmithing.

[sharps4590]

Except that it's a Mannlicher, not a Mauser.

[JDZincavage]

The seller advertised it as a (modified) 88 Mauser, and it looks like one to me. Why do you think it's a Mannlicher, and if so, which one?

[mike ford]

JDZincavage,
Your rifle is chambered for and old target cartridge, the 8.15x46R, as evidenced by the marking 8x46 1/2. There is a two part article about this cartridge in earlier issues of WAIDMANNSHEIL, which are avaliable through the "home office". Even though this action is often called a mod 88 mauser(incorrectly), it is actually the mod 88 commission rifle. The commission designing this rifle adopted very few Mauser features( the chambering of 8x57I-8mm Mauser- is a likely cause of the confusion, together with the habit of some to refer to any turnbolt rifle as "mauser").The main features of the rifle, such as the split reciever bridge with the bolt handle ahead of it, show the commission adopted mostly Mannlicher features in its design. This is why Sharps 4590 correctly stated it is not a Mauser. All that aside, the rifle looks like it will be a lot of fun for you, and you are lucky to have found it.
Mike

[JDZincavage]

The 8.15x46R chambering is typical of German single shot target and stalking rifles, and would make perfect sense. However, I know what that round looks like. I used to own a Schutzen in that chambering. And the chamber cast is nothing like it. It might be that the same idiot who messed up the other bits rechambered it. When the calipers I ordered arrive, I'll do all the measurements again.

Yes, the 88 Mauser is very Mannlicher-esque, but it's still an 88 Mauser.

[sharps4590]

The only Mauser I ever saw with the bolt handle in front of the rear receiver bridge or a split rear receiver was the 1871. The bolt release is pure Mannlicher as is the small recoil lug, cocking piece and from what I can see the extractor. It is, as Mike said, an 88 Commission rifle, not a Mauser. I've owned a couple Mannlichers, I really like the full stock 1903, 1905, 1908 and 1910 in their various chamberings and still own a 1903. I believe anyone who glanced at the rifle and was familiar with Mannlichers would call it a Mannlicher, not a Mauser.

When my current 1903 arrived at my local gun dealer and I unpacked it and handed it to Ralph his first comment was "those old Mausers were really slick actions". I said the same thing, "except that it's a Mannlicher, not a Mauser". This is a man who has been in the firearms business for 30 years and I thought would notice the difference immediately. It being Austrian and a bolt rifle he immediately assumed "Mauser". After a quick second look he said, "Oh!! So it is!!!"

http://www.chuckhawks.com/commission_rifle.htm

It's a shame that "some idiot" as you correctly called whoever botched it did what they did. Once you learn what the real cartridge is it should still be a really fun rifle. Congrats on a cool acquisition.

[JDZincavage]

I'd have trouble justifying it, but counting this one, I actually own 3 88 Mausers, or 88 Commission Rifles if you prefer. The other two are Haenels. One is a great big heavy panneled stock, ribbed barreled, 9x56MS, which has a conventional magazine. The other is a nice light little carbine, also made by Haenel, in 7x57 which uses en block clips.

[mike ford]

JDZincavage,
Unfortunately, a great many rifles that were born 8.15x46R were rechambered or relined in the US, I have one relined to .218 Mashburn Bee and one rechambered to 30-30 and had the neck opened up to 32Win. Spc., almost ( a real mess). If you have a Haenel with a "conventional" magazine, it is either a mod.1900 or 1909. These were improvements of the 88 Commission rifles to compete with the Mod 98 Mauser, which at the time was still protected by a in force patent. One of the patented features of the Mausers was the "W" magazine spring. If you open up the floorplate on your "conventional" magazine, you will note that the follower is powered by a very interesting system of levers and springs. One of the features of the mod 88 that was used against it in advertising for competitive rifles was the one piece firing pin, which together with the removable bolt head was said to allow a cartridge to be fired with out support for the cartridge head.I guess it could happen, if you try hard enough, but I don't know of any documented cases. I would be hard pressed to see how a cartridge could be chambered w/o the bolt head. Nevertheless, Haenel made the firing pins in two pieces, with the front piece attached to the bolt head, in the newer models. They also added a shield to prevent hot gases from a "blown" cartridge from traveling down the bolt ways to the shooter's face. The Haenels(and mod 88s) are thought to be not a strong as the Mausers, but they were proofed with exactly the same proof loads as the Mausers. In my opinion, the Haenels are very fine, while underrated rifles. BTY, Axel recently posted photos of some of his rifles on a different thread on this forum. It shouldn't take you long to find them.It is the thread about IDing a simpson rifle. Mike

[sharps4590]

JD, what does it need done and what are your plans, if I may ask? I just love to see old rifles put back to use....as Mike knows. I bug him often enough about them.

[JDZincavage]

The chamber casting is of a .30-06, 8x57 sort of cartridge, much longer and with a much more pronounced shoulder than 8.15x46R. Now the chamber casting is a year old, and Dave Davison of CH4D was telling me today that chamber castings change size after a month and are no longer reliable, but when I mike the bullet portion (and I may not be completely reliable either), I get roughly .312. I need, I guess, to send it to a gunsmith who can identify the chambering.

Beyond that, it needs the two trigger guard screws remade properly, a new fore-end key and escutcheons on both sides replaced, and the front sight replaced. Since the flip up rear sight is not adjustable, the new front sight will need to be calibrated to work with the rear sight and the right ammunition.

It may be that some goofball had this rifle rechambered into something too big and powerful for the 88 action. In that case, it should probably just be re-barreled.

It has been sitting here because my local gunsmith's measurements of the original casting were not the same as what I got, and I grew profoundly confused. And then I bought another new gun, and another new gun...

[JDZincavage]

Right at the moment, I am preoccupied mainly with a Neidner target rifle I just bought, (almost certainly) chambered in the wildcat, pre-Remington commercial version of .257 Roberts. I'm getting on in years, and having grown lazy, I gave away all my reloading stuff a while back. Now I have to get organized to load all over again. I ordered dies today for the early .257 wildcat.

Neidner pictures:

http://zincavage.org/N-S1.jpg

http://zincavage.org/N-S2.jpg

http://zincavage.org/N-S3.jpg

http://zincavage.org/N-S4.jpg

http://zincavage.org/N-S5.jpg

http://zincavage.org/N-S7.jpg

http://zincavage.org/N-S9.jpg

http://zincavage.org/N-S13.jpg

The barrel is by Wm. Sukalle.

[mike ford]

JD,
A lot of the confusion is caused by having this rifle discussed on two different forums and having a second rifle brought into this thread(the 257).When you talk about the chambercast. it is not on this forum, and to refer back to it would require getting out of this one to get to the other one.With regard to the 257, it would be much better to set up a different thread, because some people that would reply about the M88 have no or little interest in American Custom rifles(even those made on Mauser actions).
With regard to the work that needs to be done, Mauser trigger guard screws are commercially avaliable and can likely be shortened to fit.If I remember correctly, M88 uses the same screw size( 1/4"-22) as the Mausers. Of coures new ones can be made, but will be more expensive than using those made for a Mauser. You have not provided any photos of the area of the barrel that would show the front sight and where a common rear sight would have been mounted.Consequently, we can only guess at what will work and be appropriate on your rifle.For instance, the common front sight for the period would be dovetailed to enter a base from front to rear, or be solid. To have any windage adjustment would require a rearsight base and "standing leaf " be installed. I would almost" bet the farm" that this rifle had such a rearsight that was removed to mount a scope, low ( the reciever has been drilled and tapped).To determine the caliber, will require more inrormation than you have provided, on this forum. What was avaliable and/or common for the period would be considered in making this determination. For instance, you stated the cartridge is a "30-06,8x57 sort of cartridge".After WW2, a common rechambering was to 8mm-06.You can see if a 30-06 fl sized case will chamber, or if not try 8x57. This will give you an idea of the head size and length of the cartridge. Slugging the barrel will Id the required bullet and not be dependent on the chambercast.The foreend key and escutcheons will be pretty straight forward "hand work" and may be pretty expensive, unless you can do it yourself.
Mike

[JDZincavage]

Sorry about that. Talking about one gun kind of leads to talking about another. For the 88 Mauser single shot, I have to find a pretty skilled gunsmith to replace the missing escutcheons & key. I could never do that kind of work.

I'm currently at my vacation home in Central PA. The only gunsmith I know who could do that kind of work is Abe Chaber from Danbury, CT, but Abe (if he has not retired) is always incredibly busy.

On the left side of the receiver, there are two screw holes which I would assume for a side-mount for a scope. There is absolutely no sign of any kind of rear sight (other than the flip up) ever having existed at all.

There is a front sight ramp which is dovetailed. My local gunsmith put a modern pistol sight which happened to fit into the dovetail. But it needs a proper front sight.

I took some more photos. Let me see if any came out, and I'll upload them later. My storage web-site host was down this morning.

Cheers,
David

[ellenbr]

Ford you seem to be in violation of the Axel - Ford anti-propagation of same thread on multiple sites again.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[mike ford]

Raimey, go back and read the comment, after you have your coffee.
Mike