Need help identifying Simson rifle

[Simson Rifle Help]

My father-in-law has an old Simson rifle that we cannot identify. I have posted a few pictures I’m hoping will help. Any information is appreciated. Thanks for looking!

[Axel E]

To further identify your rifle I need a photo of the main proofmarks under the barrel (you have to take the rifle apart) and a photo on the right side of the complete action area, with bolt and bolt handle. The service load description "2.75 gramm Gewehr Blättchen Pulver / SG" = 42 gr (military-)rifle flake powder / steel jacketed bullet as part of the proof marks was in General use up to 1912 and points to the 8x57I. As the rifle is apparently pre-WW1, it was most likely built on a Mauser, Oberndorf commercial action, so look for a Mauser factory serial number under the receiver ring, behind the recoil lug, and on the rear wall of the magazine box. A Mauser number would allow to date the rifle more closely, as the fate of the Simson serial number ledgers is unknown.

[Simson Rifle Help]

I'll have to take it apart tonight, but here are a couple more pictures.

[Simson Rifle Help]

Only other markings I could find when I took the two bolts out of the bottom. Do I need to take it apart further?

[Axel E]

After seeing the new photos of the proofmarks: Simson built the rifle in the immediate post-WW1 times on a scrubbed or left-over action of WW1 Military Gewehr 98 production. Pre-WW1 there were no surplus M98 actions availble. The CROWN-crown/N proofmarks indicate it was proofed using the 4000 atm special proof powder. This proof, together with the old "2,75g GBlP" service load designation, was used up to about 1924, or as long as stocks of the powder lasted. So your Simson rifle may be dated to 1919 to 1924.

[sharps4590]

I just love the side panels on those rifles. Nice piece!!

[Axel E]

Stocks with round pistolgrips, side panels and key-fastened foreends, plus half-octagonal, ribbed barrels and flat bolt handles were common features of Suhl made bolt actions up to the 1920s. Some examples:
V.C.Schilling M88 action

Haenel 1900

Haenel M 1909

[Axel E]

„DWM“ Plesier Mauser M93 action, 7x57

1908 W.Foerster, Berlin, in 9.3x62

[Simson Rifle Help]

Thank you for all of the information. This is going to help us a lot!

You mentioned "Military Gewehr 98" or "M98", is that the model number of the rifle?

[mike ford]

Simson Rifle Help,
"Military Gewehr 98" or "M98" is not the model number of the rifle you have, rather it is the model number Mauser gave the action when it was developed( they had earlier actions with different numbers). We usually just call actions of this type M 98, even if they were made by someone else or came from a rifle with some other number.
Mike

[Axel E]

"M98" is the common designation for the fully developed Mauser action. During WW1 the standard arms of the German army were the infantry rifle with 28" barrel, official Name "Gewehr 98", in short Gew 98. Then there was the so-called carbine for cavalry, artillery and so on, named "Karabiner 98", Kar 98, 24" barrel. The Kar 98 had a small ring Receiver, while the Gew 98 had a large ring one. Both actions were of so-called Standard l During the interwar years almost all M98 German sporting rifles were built on left-over actions, either from war production or from "destroyed" military rifles. As Simson built the rifle on a large ring receiver the action is a Gew 98 one.