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this is my latest purchase.
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Last edited by MARAT; 10-29-2014, 09:42 PM. -
WP_20141023_15_16_31_Pro.jpgWP_20141023_15_15_11_Pro.jpgWP_20141023_15_15_30_Pro.jpgWP_20141023_15_16_20_Pro.jpgWP_20141023_15_14_44_Pro.jpgit is difficult for me to install pictures, but i'm tryingLast edited by MARAT; 10-29-2014, 09:50 PM.Comment
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If I right understand the proof mark 97R - means that is 97-th gun, which he made?
I think that damascus barrels have English proof marks?Comment
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Most interesting & unique Sergey. It would appear there was much machining effort or filing for all the intricate items. It looks to have a transportation safety latch? I wonder if the DRP 61189 of 1891 of Richter fully contains all the features?
https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNe...es=2&pdfpage=2
Cheers,
Raimey
rseComment
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The 97R just might note nr. 97 of Richter???? What bore is it?
Cheers,
Raimey
rseComment
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Hi Raimey! it is 12 gauge, the inner diameter is 18.45 mm.
Thanks to Axel Eichendorff research, I think it is based on 1889 year patent.
Let's wait his answer....
regards MaratComment
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When Marat contemplated buying this gun, he asked me, through a Belgian GGCA member, about “whatsit”. My (expanded and improved) answers:
This is a very early over-under shotgun, made and signed by Albrecht Richter, Neumarkt 5, Cottbus, to his own design. Richter held several patents, two on lock details, DRP 29404 of 1884 and DRP 53061 of 1889. He also held a third, 1891, DRP 61198, but that was for a rear sight contraption and is not related to the shotguns. As no official proofmarks are visible in the photos, this over-under may be dated November1889 to March 1893. 97R may be Richter’s total production serial number.
When I visited our old friend Flintenkalle Pape I took some hasty photos of his side by side by Richter. Though not an o/u, most of the unusual features are on it too. The tang inscription “SYSTEM-RICHTER-COTTBUS / DR Patent” is the same.
The side swing foreend latch was covered in Richter’s 1884 patent.
The unusual hand detachable locks are mentioned in no patent text, but are shown in the drawings of the 1889 patent. The workings of this feature make Richter’s guns look so unusual, if not weird. The trigger plate locks may be removed for inspection and cleaning without using any tools. Even the firing pins may be replaced by hand. Richter even claimed, by changing the firing pins his guns within a few minutes could be converted from using centerfire cartridges to Collath’s inline pinfire shells or even Franz von Dreyse’s needlefires.
The hand detachable feature works this way: Take the barrels off. Start with the gun cocked. We soon learned why when we tried to reassemble Kalle’s gun, taken apart uncocked! In front of the triggerguard there is a screw with a lever instead of a head, top left in the lockwork photo. (On the o/u this has been replaced with a common screw) The lever is kept from turning by a small spring detent. Press down this detent and unscrew. A similar detent keeps a long lever (horn clad on the o/u) under the pistol grip in position. Again, depress the detent and swing the lever to the right. Now, sort of a wedge, top right in the lockwork photo, visible on the o/u like a “second safety slide”, may be pushed/pulled out through the top tang. Now the triggerplate with the lockwork is taken out and the stock may be detached . Then the patented locking wedge with the integral firing pin carrier may be taken out and the firing pins inspected or replaced. Reassembele in reverse order.
Very interesting on this Richter over-under is the breech locking arrangement: Two wedges, coming from the standing breech, enter slots cut out in the sides of the barrel assembly. This is essentially the same lockup reinvented and used 20 years later by the British gunmakers Boss, 1909, and Woodward, 1913.
All in all, Richter’s unusual shotguns are very rare and , especially as a maybe one of a kind over-under, are very collectible IMHO.
(Marat had asked about the rare Super Britte)
IMHO any A.Richter gun is more rare than the production SuperBritte. Likely the whole life production of Richter detachable lock patent guns, all types combined, was less than the famous Super Britte sideways opening over-unders. Additionally, a 12 bore over-under on these patents, made about 1890s is probably one of a kind. At that time side-by-sides in 16 bore were the accepted standard in Germany, over-under shotguns had not yet started to become fashionable or accepted by hunters. Though the stock of that gun was apparently replaced or reworked in Russia sometimes, that unique action alone is a milestone addition to any serious shotgun collection. You will probably never find an earlier hammerless centerfire over-under anywhere. As you don’t see it in any of the common shotgun collectors books: Richter detachable lock guns as a whole are so rare that no one of the “shotgun experts” has ever seen one or even heard about their existence.
(Marat had asked for costs!)
My advice and research is for free as I do it just for fun and perhaps for the benefit of the German Gun Collectors Association www.germanguns.com and it’s members. Maybe you will become a member too, just to get the information and expert knowledge shared by other members?
Waidmannsheil!
AxelComment
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No. Damascus barrels were most often forged in Belgium. The rough Barrels were then exported to Germany and England, where they were built into guns. So damascus barrels on guns built in England have British proof marks, those on Belgian made guns Liege proofs. Germany had an effective, mandatory proof only from April 1, 1893 on. So on earlier German guns there are often no proofmarks at all.Originally posted by MARAT View PostComment
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The core of Richter's patents was a striker carrier housing, on top and integral with the locking wedge. When the locking wedge is pushed back by the snap action, Roux type underlever, this striker carrier goes back too, retracting the firing pins and pushing the hammers back to full cock.Comment
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Dear Axel!! thank you very much for your research and comments.
There is proof mark on the barrel - "V under the crown", it looks like English proof mark.
At the first part of pictures you may see the proof mark of two letters. I think it is a individual proof mark of the barrel maker ?!
may be it help to determine the period and e.c.?
Regards MAratComment
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MARAT,
On a pre 1893 gun a Crown V is not an actual proof mark. It is actually a mark applied to guns that were "in stock" when the first proof law came into effect(as mentioned by AXEL).This mark is the sign that shows the gun was made before the law, and since it was still "in stock"at that time, it can be dated to then.
MikeComment
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Sorry, MARAT, but I don't see a photo showing the crown/V Vorratszeichen = in stock sign. As mike Ford wrote, this mark was only stamped on completed guns, ready for sale, still on gunmaker's shelves during March 1893. It signified the gun was made before proof became mandatory, so the gun was exempt from proof. If any gunsmith was caught with a newmade, unproofed gun without this crown/V mark, he was guilty of violating the proof law.Comment
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