German Drilling

[sjbrdn]

Hello everyone. My drilling is a double 16 gauge over a rifle barrel- typical hammer configuration. Can someone help me with the rifle caliber? The markings on the rifle barrel are either 88 m/m or 8,8 m/m (I can't tell if that's a comma or a dent in the metal), 3.13, and 633. Descending vertically, starting with the 8,8 m/m.
I'm not looking to shoot this gun, but I would like to know the caliber and get a vintage cartridge to display with it.
Thanks for the help,
Steve
Also, there's what looks to be an M stamped over a Z at the end of the proofs.
The top rib between the 16 gauge barrels reads: RICH. HENKELS. JSERLOHN. (not sure if that's a J or some symbol-it could be a T with a tail)

[ellenbr]

Now that 3.13 is the date with the ledger nr. below. You really need to perform a chamber cast but it might be the 9,3x72R.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[sjbrdn]

Raimey,
I may have just replied to you or deleted it, not sure which. Please help my ignorance. Do you mean 3.13 as in March 1913? Also, what is a ledger nr? Ledger number? There is what I supposed to be a serial number of 4088 further up the barrel on the muzzle side of the forearm bracket. What would the 8,8 m/m mean if this is 9,3 x 72R. I have very little knowledge of European calibers. I do have a Cartridges of the World book if this info is in there.
Thanks for your help, Steve

[ellenbr]

Steve, the 633 is Nr. 633 for March of that year. The intertwined ZM represents Zella Sankt Blasii-Mehlis proof facility. The 8,8mm would be the pre-rifling bore diameter. You might take a pencil or chopstick and check the chamber length at 72mm.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Hum, I've seen info that suggests there was a Rich. Henkel in Viernau & I guess he or someone with the same name was in Jserlohn/Westfalen.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[sjbrdn]

Raimey, thanks for helping me with this. This rifle bore and barrel are straight through and the unrifled portion of the bore appears to be 72mm. I saw the 9.3 x 72 cartridge in my catalogue and it is a straight cartridge.
Can you clarify for me the date stamp. Two sets of numbers: 3.13 and 633. Would that be March of 1913 or June of 1933? and what would the other set of numbers represent?
Steve

[ellenbr]

The Zella - Mehlis used a ledger number to note the number of examples that passed thru the facility each month. They began haphazardly around 1903 and by 1907/1908 most Z-M examples wear a date stamp. So your example would be Nr. 633 for the month of March in the year 1913.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[sjbrdn]

Thank you, Raimey. You have a wealth of knowledge about these German firearms. I picked this drilling up about two years ago and have been trying to date it off and on. I thought it looked pre WWII but didn't realize it was this early. I have this one drilling and a simson suhl double 12 from about 1960. Thanks again, steve

[ellenbr]

It seems early for firearms merchant Richard Henkels of Jserlohn(I & J were interchangeable maybe based on classical Latin?) so it might be some of his 1st offerings.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[sjbrdn]

Raimey, is there a reference book you would recommend that has detailed information on the makers and guilds?
Steve

[ellenbr]

Not yet of which I know. But about any of the GGCA offerings have merit.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[Absalom]

I have no insights on the gun, but the town is Iserlohn with an I. In a lot of older German scripts, the capital I looks a lot like a J.
The firm of Richard Henkels did exist in Iserlohn until recently; attached a snip from the trade register showing them being declared defunct in 2006 (highlighting is mine), although there is no record I could find of them as a gun business. References were in respect to cutlery.