Marked not for "S" 8X57

[Packmule]

Ok so I am always looking for Pre-war sporting rifles and saw this how many makers took the time to mark them like this ? or is this something done after

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[chapmen]

When i see the differents in depth of marking i would say its done some time later. What kind of proofmarks on it?

[mike ford]

I have seen this mark from time to time, as I recall, mostly on post 1939 proof law guns. What is the date on your rifle?
Mike

[Packmule]

Not mine just one I have been watching on GB , and no pictures of the proof marks but here is a couple more pictures of the rifle

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[Axel E]

As the receiver inscription „Gewehrfabrik Danzig“ shows, the rifle was originally an action built for a short time, 1919 – 1920, by the former Royal Prussian gun factory there. After the end of WW1 the Danzig arsenal tried to convert to civilian products, using the machinery they had for making the Kar 98AZ carbines on small ring 98 Mauser actions. So did the Erfurt and Amberg factories. The allied disarmament commissions ended this after the Versailles so called “peace treaty” came into force. The Danzig equipment was dismantled and shipped to Radom, Poland, to set up the national arsenal there.
1940 or later the rifle was barreled and stocked by J.G.Anschuetz, aka “Germania Waffenwerk”, Reissmannstrasse 22, Zella-Mehlis. This is shown by the barrel inscription conforming to the 1940 proof law. Only this proof law introduced the 8x57I designation. It also required that the gunmaker who rebarreled a gun put his company name on the gun, here J.G.Anschuetz. The 1940 proof rules also required for the first time to make 8x57I, .318” barrels to be chambered so 8x57IS, .323” bullet, cartridges would not fit. This put an end to the former habit of chambering and throating I barrels so IS cartridges could be used also. As the warning “not for S cartridges” is quite unusual, the Anschuetz conversion was done quite early after the 1940 law IMHO.
The rifle was retailed by the gunshop Steiner & Co., Hohenzollernstr. 4, Glogau in Silesia, since 1945 Poland.

[mike ford]

Axel,
Considering the "excitement" in Poland, post 1939, I'm a little surprised there were many retail sales there, even in German speaking Silesia. How free were gun sales to civilians then?
Mike

[chapmen]

This rifle is absolutely different to the "Sporters" i know made in Danzig between 1919-1920. Especially the inscription: There is stamped "GEWERFABRIK", missing an "H".
I have done since an longer time some research about the Danzig, Amberg and Erfurt sporters.
All Danzig sporters from this period shows the same inscription:





For me the inscription looks an little bit selfmade with single stamps, not factory made.

[Axel E]

Axel,
Considering the "excitement" in Poland, post 1939, I'm a little surprised there were many retail sales there, even in German speaking Silesia. How free were gun sales to civilians then?
Mike

Mike, apparently you are not very versed in German history and geagraphy. Glogau is in lower Silesia, until 1945 purely German. The same (non existing) "restrictions" applied there as, lets say, the Rhineland or Bavaria.

[Axel E]

This rifle is absolutely different to the "Sporters" i know made in Danzig between 1919-1920. Especially the inscription: There is stamped "GEWERFABRIK", missing an "H".
I have done since an longer time some research about the Danzig, Amberg and Erfurt sporters.
All Danzig sporters from this period shows the same inscription:
For me the inscription looks an little bit selfmade with single stamps, not factory made.

Mike, you are right, the "Danzig" inscription was certainly faked later on an ex-military Kar 98AZ action. But, please note: I wrote "rebarreled AND RESTOCKED by J.G.Anschuetz".

[chapmen]

Mike, you are right, the "Danzig" inscription was certainly faked later on an ex-military Kar 98AZ action. But, please note: I wrote "rebarreled AND RESTOCKED by J.G.Anschuetz".

Axel, i missunderstood the first part of your post.
I just wanted to show the inscription on the action from danzig made "sporters" to make clear
that this action is not one of these.

[mike ford]

Axel, you are right that I don't know as much about the geography and history of Germany as you.Keep in mind that when I lived there ,there was no Germany, there was FRG, and DDR. I suspect you wouldn't know about Horseshoe Bend or Andersonville. All I know about Silesia came from a friend that had to leave there as a "Displaced Person"(DP) and come to the West after the war as a small boy, his father had been lost in Russia. He and is family almost starved during this time and it messed up his nervous system so he was having problems even in the 70s.
Mike

[Robert]

has anyone consider the "not for S" means not for Spitzer?

[mike ford]

Robert,
That is precisely what it means. The "S" in "IS"and "IRS" is for spitzer, it's just when they changed to the spitzer bullet they also increased the diameter of the bullet from .318" to .323". In testing the proposed lighter bullet at a much higher velocity, they had trouble with .318" bullets holding the rifling in the .320" groove diameter barrels. They found that increasing the depth of the rifling to .323"groove diameter and increasing the bullet diameter to .323", resolved the problem. They added the "S" to the designation to differentiate between the two cartridges.
Mike

[Robert]

Robert,
That is precisely what it means. The "S" in "IS"and "IRS" is for spitzer, it's just when they changed to the spitzer bullet they also increased the diameter of the bullet from .318" to .323". In testing the proposed lighter bullet at a much higher velocity, they had trouble with .318" bullets holding the rifling in the .320" groove diameter barrels. They found that increasing the depth of the rifling to .323"groove diameter and increasing the bullet diameter to .323", resolved the problem. They added the "S" to the designation to differentiate between the two cartridges.
Mike

See, that kind of educated reply confuses me with respect to the original post, which didn't seem answered/addressed to me, but yet seemed like a legit question,

I tried to figure it for myself, did I completely miss the intent of the original posters question?

This forum has me feeling like a gun noob.

Robert

[mike ford]

Robert,
Go back to Axel's first posting, toward the end, he said the marking is scarce, I said I only ever saw it on guns proofed after 1939 proof law. I don't know what a noob is, but it seems to me that the reason for asking questions is to learn. Before long you will be answering someone else's questions.
Mike