11.2x72 Schuler - help with markings please

[buckstix]

Another 11.2x72 Schuler cal rifle joins the family. This is my 3rd rifle in this caliber.

This was posted for sale about a year ago in a classified forum. I can't believe it didn't sell... lucky me !

The posting included the following information.

"...I picked this up last week to help a friend out ... and I really have no use for it. I thought I would post it on here to see if anyone had any interest.The makers name is on the pic of the rib.It has a 24" octagon to round full ribbed barrel and the LOP is 14 3/8" to front of the double set trigger and weighs under 8.5 lb.Most questions can be answered by the pics. Brass dies and a bullet sizer .450 to .440 is included. ..."

information from others added ...

"... Perhaps "FR. TENHAEFF UTRECHT" (found on the rib) is actually a small retail sporting good shop that had their name added and sold this rifle. ..."

As in the past, if anyone can help to interpret the makings and the maker and year of production, it would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/11.2x72-000.jpg


http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/11.2x72-0000.jpg

[algmule]

Hello

Utrecht is a city in the Netherlands/Holland. See info in link. You may have to copy and paste.

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.or...-utrecht/56703

EDIT: I do not know how reliable the time-frame info on the Tenhaeff business in the link is. Just trying to help.

Peter

[algmule]

Hello

Not a lot of info available as it seems. The time-frame info in my link in an earlier post is, however, incorrect. Found a H. H. Tenhaeff, geweermaker (rifle manufacturer) in the 1880’s (mid 1880’s to 1888) but, also found an F. H. Tenhaeff, geweermaker in the early 1880’s. From 1889 the Tenhaeff business is always mentioned as F. H. Tenhaeff. Sometimes the business went under wapenhandelaar (gun retailer). The first address for the Tenhaeff business I have been able to find was Lange Viestraat 19, Utrecht. From 1913 to a couple of years into the 1920’s the business seems to have been located at Burgstraat 7 (the Netherlands was neutral during the first major disagreement) , and after that it seems to have relocated back to No. 19 Lange Viestraat. I have not been able to dig up anything about any Tenhaeff business dealing in guns after 1935. There is no F. or F. H. Tenhaeff in Utrecht in 1940.

In 1893, and up to and including 1895, an F. H. Tenhaeff is commissioner for/of some target practice in Utrecht.

I cannot say I know for certain but it is my belief that H. H and F. H. are the same person. Belief, however, is not the same as knowing. A Friedrich Hermann Tenhaeff, born on July 23, 1853, may be the culprit you are looking for. Birth address (if I have understood the documents correctly) was Lange Viestraat 19, Utrecht. A Hendrik Hermanus was born on the very same day as Friedrich Hermann. His birth address was Potterstraat 6, Utrecht. Hendrik Hermanus birth is the only info I have on him. Also, there may have been a junior Friedrich Hermann involved in the Tenhaeff business. Born on September 26, 1887. Birth address Lange Viestraat 19, Utrecht.

Friedrich may be Frederik in the Netherlands.

Let’s hope I have not put my foot in it………. And that I have cast the correct characters.

EDIT: Found a business registration from May 9, 1921, concerning Firma F. H. Tenhaeff, Lange Viestraat 19, Utrecht. Owner of the business a Carl Verbeck (born 1886). The business, according to the registration, were to be involved in gun making and trade in hunting equipment. The registration states that the Tenhaeff business was founded in 1879.

EDIT again: I was wrong. There was a F. H. Tenhaeff business in Utrecht in 1940.

Peter

[buckstix]

Hello Peter,

Thanks for your information. Is it your opinion that Tenhaeff built this rifle, or merely retailed it? And, what's your best guess as to year of manufacture?

[algmule]

Hello

Retailed the rifle I would say. But, that is my opinion. I just do not see why they would manufacture a rifle in the Netherlands and then send it to Germany for proof when they could just order a proved one from Germany with their name on. Again, just my opinion. Also, it looks German, it looks "?ppeltysk" as we say where I live. I could be wrong. It happens.

If I find anything on the "U" I will post that info. No luck so far, though.

?ppeltysk - as German as apples. No idea why apples should look like/be specifically German apples. At one time Sweden imported ship loads of apples from Germany. To begin with I suppose ?ppeltysk was used as a derogatory word, or at least a semi-derogatory one. I digress from topic, sorry.

As for the Dutch geweermaker. Do not let that word throw you off track. It is just a title. Compare some Gewehrfabrikanten (rifle manufacturers) in Germany. Some/many of them just wore the title.

Peter

[buckstix]

thank you Peter,

And, what's your best guess as to year of manufacture?

[algmule]

Hello

As per the mm-marking. Post circa 1911-12. Better still, around 1911-12 as per the mm-marking coupled with 4,7 G.B.P. I could well be wrong.

I wonder what they would have hunted in the Netherlands with an 11,2x72. Perhaps the rifle was meant for one of the Dutch colonies.

It wears the crown-cown N-marking (the 4000 Atmosph?ren proof) and the load 4,7 gram GBP (Gewehrbl?ttchen Pulver) is the prescribed service load.

Neat rifle. Pity about the cracks in the stock. maybe the "careful trustworthy reloader" (yes, I read over at the NE-forum) is to be held to account for that.

I cannot make out the marking on the barrel just ahead of the receiver ring.

Peter

[buckstix]

Hello

Neat rifle. Pity about the cracks in the stock. maybe the "careful trustworthy reloader" (yes, I read over at the NE-forum) is to be held to account for that.

I cannot make out the marking on the barrel just ahead of the receiver ring.

Peter

The "cracks in the stock" as you call them, are only superficial - merely a chip in the surface that does not affect the structure of the stock at all. It is already being addressed and a cosmetic repair is underway. The marking on the barrel ahead of the receiver ring is the number "560". That number does not correspond to any other numbers. Perhaps its a serial number, or inventory number from the retailer F. H. Tenhaeff.

[buckstix]

Hello All,

I finally had some nice weather to test some loads. I tested some light loads with 300g bullets, and some full loads with 400g bullets. All were shot with the peep site's small aperture. The light loads that came with the rifle shot higher and had velocity spread "all over the place" - ranging from a low of 1404 fps to a high of 1631 fps. Since I didn't load these, I suspect this was due to poor loading technique and not just poor performance of the lighter bullet. I also loaded the same full house loads from when I tested the IMMAN 11.2x72 Schuler a while back.

I noticed a "significant" difference in felt recoil with this lighter Mannlicher. It weighed 8.5 pounds and had 68 ft/lbs recoil, whereas the Imman weighed 11 pounds and only had 53 ft/lbs recoil. That 15 ft/lbs difference in recoil energy was noticeable, and much less pleasant to shoot.

It is important to note that the load with the 400g bullet (bullets deep seated to an overall loaded length of 3.300") easily achieved 2,350 fps and would make an excellent load for Africa, having the same performance as the 404 Jeffery but with a greater sectional density. It is also more potent than a 375 H&H. Energy at 100 yards for the 11.2x72 Schuler is 4,170 ft/lbs, compared to only 3,125 ft/lbs for the 375 H&H.

as always comments are most welcome

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http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/11.2x72-TARG-SM.jpg



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http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/11.2x72-TARG2-SM.jpg

[mike ford]

Regarding the timeframe, Since the bore (not groove or bullet) diameter was shown in mm and there was no case length shown, I believe it was proofed in the first part of the 1911-1912 change to the improved procedures.
Mike