An unmarked Mauser with very strange markings - please help

[buckstix]

Hello All,

I bought this at auction and its taken 2 weeks to get to discover what I bought. Looks like no exterior markings, but then who knows. This was too reasonably priced to pass it by.

The rifle finally arrived. I added updated pictures to the original pictures from the auction. Could anyone please help with the proof marks? These are totally foreign to me and different from those typically seen on other rifles. The serial number stamped on the bottom of the action is "10001". There is a number "1" on the bottom of the barrel ahead of the receiver (see close-up picture of the bottom of the receiver) and there is also also a number "1" on the bottom of the bolt handle. The metal butt plate has a Banner Mauser logo. There is no caliber marking. But come to find, the caliber is 8x57 .. not 7x57 as was listed in the auction description. Very disappointing. I wanted a 7x57 sporter, not an 8x57.
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http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/7x57-000.jpg

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[mike ford]

Buckstix,
The rifle You have is in my opinion very unusual and pretty rare. Hopefully, this opinion this opinion will be either verified or disputed by Axel. The Imperial acceptance stamp in the receiver ring indicates to me that this rifle is one of the hunting rifles used early in WW1 as a sniper rifle to test the concept and use until officials could develop military sniper rifles. It is unfortunate that the stock has been refinished, While it was nicely refinished that work likely obliterated markings critical to identifying it as one of those rifles. I have one with those markings mostly intact and in addition to a unit marking, the "rack" number (I used this term because it has usual serial numbers on the metal) is also shown. Your rifles stock may very well have been refinished specifically to remove these markings, if so, that is really unfortunate. Axel has written about these rifles and their history, if you check old copies of GGCA publications, I'm sure you cand find it. The markings you mentioned are not proofmarks, rather they are workers touchmarks, used to identify specific workmen for pay and assignment of responsibility purposes. The actual proofmarks should be found on the bottom of the barrel and on the receiver ring. If none are there, they were likely removed during refinishing. The magazine box should have a number stamped on it, matching or close to the number behind the recoil lug. If there is no number there, the magazine/floorplate assembly may have been replaced, maybe if it had a lever release hinged floorplate. It is fortunate that the scope is still attached, as most of these rifles had the scopes removed to attach them to later military sniper rifles. If you find the number 172,28 on the bottom of the barrel, that is the bore diameter expressed in gauge measurement; this number for a 7mm would be 222,5.
I hope this helps.
Mike

[Axel E]

Such often RwE marked sporters were only made for a short time, 1919 - 1921. After the 1918 armistice the German government arsenals Amberg, Danzig and Erfurt tried to convert to civilian production to save as many jobs as possible for their workers. As after November 1918 there were no Kaiser and kings anymore, Germany being a republic, the "K?nigliche Gewehrfabrik Erfurt" = royal (Prussian) rifle factory in Erfurt was renamed "Reichswerke Erfurt" = RwE. As they had made 98 rifles and carbines during WW1, they used their production line, machines and tools, to make sporting rifles on the M98 actions. They made pistols and some REMO Mauser actioned shotguns too. So these RwE sporters are not converted military rifles, but were factory made as sporters using the tooling and leftover parts from wartime production. As the civilian proofhouse system did not work again, these rifles were proofed by the former military acceptance personal and marked with the Prussian military acceptance eagle stamp, sometimes with the crown removed from the stamp. In America Remington did the same when they used their facilities to produce M17 Enfields to make their models 30, 30S and 720 sporting rifles. At that time the Germans did not foresee the harsh "peace" conditions they had to sign at gunpoint soon. When the so-called "Versailles Peace Treaty" was enforced in late 1920 - 21, the allied disarmament commissions enforced all these government owned gun factories to be closed down and dismantled, machines and tools handed over to other states as reparations. So the production of those RwE, Gewehrfabrik Danzig and Gewehrfabrik Amberg marked sporters came to a sudden stop. During that short time span RwE apparently made up to 2000 such rifles. Here are two photos of such rifles, one from Erfurt, the other Danzig.
The plethora of small worker’s marks are typical for the Erfurt and Danzig arsenal production. They were factory internal, documented steps in production and served quality control. They allowed tracing back fault to a single machine and worker. Even Paul Mauser himself was unable in 1909 to interpret them in court, let alone us trying to do so today. The sort of serial number 10001 was certainly added later, perhaps to have a serial number for registration purposes.
The Busch Certar scope is a model used by snipers in WW1. As it lacks the military markings, it is most likely of early post-WW1 make too. The reticle with the 4 bars and a very pointed post was developed during WW1 for sniper use. It is the forerunner of the typical German 3-bar “Absehen 1”. The lever release claw mounts are of that vintage too. The slight engraving and maybe the scrubbing off of some inscriptions were most likely done by the gunsmith who mounted the scope.
The stock looks to good to be true to me, without the tiniest scratches an discolorations usually found on rifles of this age. It lacks the usual crosskey through foreend. It closely rsembles the stock on your “American Schueler”. The steel buttplate with the Mauser banner is in no way related to the other metal parts. It comes from a 1930s Mauser Es 340B .22 lr target rifle instead.
As the rifle was made on military machinery and tools, the rifle is probably built for the 8x57IS, .323” bullet, cartridge instead for the civilian I , .318” load. A simple check: Fire a weak American “8mm Mauser”load by Remington or Winchester in the rifle. If a .323” bullet can be slipped in and out the fired case by hand, you may use full power European 8x57IS loads.

[mike ford]

Buckstix,
As I more or less asked him to do, Axel weighed in to the discussion. However, he was courteous enough to avoid coming right out and saying I was wrong in my assessment. Likewise, I will not say he is wrong, not out of courtesy but in recognition of his extensive experience with such things. We were in agreement with a couple issues; that the "touchmarks" on the bottom of the receiver are not proofmarks and the extensive refinishing likely obliterated some useful information. I use the test he referred to in determining if other than .318" can be used in various 8mm rifles. However where cases are formed from different donor cases, care must be taken to do the test with the cases that will actually be used. If anyone is interested in the story of the civilian rifles used as sniper rifles early in WW1, I refer you to Axel's article entitled Militarized Sporting Rifles, on page 29, in Waidmannsheil, Issue#47, Winter 2011.
Mike

[buckstix]

Thank you Axel for the very detailed information about this rifle. It truly appreciated and the History will be kept with it.

Thank you mike ford for your input. It is also appreciated. Would it be possible to have you photograph the article you mention and email it. I'd like to read it.
and ... yes, the bore is .323 as measured by making a chamber cast.

[mike ford]

Buckstix,
Doing that is beyond me but if you pm me your mailing address i will send you a photocopy. The GGCA "home office" may have a copy of that Waidmannsheil for sale, if you joined after 1911.
Mike

[Axel E]

Buckstix,
Doing that is beyond me

Done.
Axel

[mike ford]

Axel,
Danke,
Mike