Info WTD about Gun & Maker - Austrian Cape Gun by Siegel of Salzburg 8.15 x 16ga

[buckstix]

Info WTD about Gun & Maker - Austrian Underlever Cape Gun by Siegel of Salzburg 8.15 x 16ga

Here's another I recently bought - any help with this one would also be appreciated. I always collect what I like, even if I know nothing about them until members here help me. I then keep the information in a file with the gun. Thanks


salter-000-1.jpg

[mike ford]

It is possible this gun is chambered for 8.15x46R, as stated, but it may be chambered for some other cartridge. I bought a gun from the same dealer, also advertised as 8.15x46R, that turned out to be 8.25x57R/360 Hagen (aka 8x57R Express) instead. Since I am interested in different cartridges, am a handloader, and the dealer was very accommodating; I kept the gun. I suggest you make or have someone make a chamber cast to verify the chambering. My rifle would chamber and fire 8.15x46R cartridges but it just seemed more appropriate for a more powerful cartridge, causing me to check the chambering. The dealer was very accommodating about this and another issue requiring repair. Consequently, my comments are, in no way, a criticism of him.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello
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I'm still off the computer so this is all I've got for now. Josef Siegel, sometimes Siegl, had by the early 1930's been active for around 50 years. There was an earlier Siegel, a Johann, who I, if I remember correctly, believe was an uncle of Josef. Once I'm back on the computer I'll get back to you on the Siegels. However, please don't hold your breath.

Also: the above is image is from 1909.

Peter

[buckstix]

It is possible this gun is chambered for 8.15x46R, as stated, but it may be chambered for some other cartridge. I bought a gun from the same dealer, also advertised as 8.15x46R, that turned out to be 8.25x57R/360 Hagen (aka 8x57R Express) instead. Since I am interested in different cartridges, am a handloader, and the dealer was very accommodating; I kept the gun. I suggest you make or have someone make a chamber cast to verify the chambering. My rifle would chamber and fire 8.15x46R cartridges but it just seemed more appropriate for a more powerful cartridge, causing me to check the chambering. The dealer was very accommodating about this and another issue requiring repair. Consequently, my comments are, in no way, a criticism of him.
Mike

Hello Mike Ford,

Thanks for the reply. Well, lucky I didn't shoot it. You were right. This is NOT an 8.15x46R. Its an 8x72R. Did you get any compensation from the dealer for the incorrect caliber listing? I ask because now I have to buy a set of dies for about $200. Truth be known, I likely would not have purchased the gun had I known it was NOT an 8.15x46R since I have several Wehrmannsgewehr rifles in 8.15x46R caliber with lots of ammo and I was happy to see a target chambering in a Cape Gun ... I was ready to shoot it. not now


CHAMBER.jpg

[algmule]

Hello
"Buechsenmacher Sieg[e]l. 1835 kam Johann Sieg[e]l aus Ischl hierher und erwarb von Johann Gitzl die Buechsenmachergerechtsame. Nach seinem Tod uebernahm das Geschaeft sein Sohn Josef, der 1889 starb. Die Witwe fuehrte es weiter, bis es 1892 der Sohn Josef uebernahm, der es noch heute [ April 1927] in der Linzergasse Nr. 29 aus?bt."

In April 1935: "dem Buechsenmacher Josef Siegel in Salzburg in Anerkennung seiner vieljaehrigen, besonders verdienstlichen Taetigkeit auf karitativem Gebiete das silberne Verdienstzeichen."

Still mentioned as owner of the establishment in 1939. Apparently, before the Siegels took over the establishment, it had a long history dating back to the 16th century.

Below are two ads, one of which seemingly contradicts the first quote in this post.

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December 1903
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January 1933

Also: if I've done research properly, the Siegel establishment didn't celebrate its 100 years in business until May 1936.

Also again: a source conflicting the first quote in this post gives that Johann Sieg[e] bought the establishment off a Felix Hofstaetter in 1835.

EDIT: I'm sorry about image quality. I'll work on them.

EDIT again. I was wrong. Linguistics kicked me around a bit. There's no ad contradicting the first quote in this post.

Peter

[mike ford]

buckstix,
I didn't get any compensation "per se" for the incorrect caliber listing but did for the repairs that were necessary. To be fair to him, he offered to take it back without hesitation. The 8x72 R is a good cartridge and one worth keeping. If I didn't already have a KLB in that caliber, I would offer to take it off your hands. BTY, I load for mine using Lyman 8x57 dies with out the expander in the sizing die. Just adjust setting for length and it works like a neck sizing die. Size the 9,3x72R cases first in 32-40 file trim die (partial, the 9,3 head diameter is larger than 32-40) then trim to length to compensate for growth during sizing. Then you wouldn't need to buy new dies.
Mike

[buckstix]

Hello algmule,

Thanks so much for all the information.

Also thank you mike ford.

[algmule]

Hello
Let's start with Felix Hofst?tter. I like to believe he ran the Siegel shop early on. He died in 1842.

Also: there is mentioning of a Ludwig Siegel, B?chsenmacher, in Salzburg, in 1839. Maybe he was the uncle I got wrong in an earlier post.

chrome_screenshot_1668936463597.png
March, 1889

I still haven't worked out image quality. The ad says her son is now running the business. I guess Apollonia Siegel owned the business and ownership then changed in 1892 when (yet another) Josef Siegel became owner.

Peter

[buckstix]

buckstix,
I didn't get any compensation "per se" for the incorrect caliber listing but did for the repairs that were necessary. To be fair to him, he offered to take it back without hesitation. The 8x72 R is a good cartridge and one worth keeping. If I didn't already have a KLB in that caliber, I would offer to take it off your hands. BTY, I load for mine using Lyman 8x57 dies with out the expander in the sizing die. Just adjust setting for length and it works like a neck sizing die. Size the 9,3x72R cases first in 32-40 file trim die (partial, the 9,3 head diameter is larger than 32-40) then trim to length to compensate for growth during sizing. Then you wouldn't need to buy new dies.
Mike

Hello mike ford.

The dealer refunded me to purchase dies and brass for the 8x72R caliber mistake. They are very professional and honorable.

[mike ford]

buckstix,
I agree, I wouldn't hesitate to trade with them again.
Mike