Help with proof marks - 20ga x 5.6x35 (22 Hornet) German Cape Gun

[buckstix]

Help with proof marks - 20ga x 5.6x35 (22 Hornet) German Cape Gun

Hello All,

I would like some help with the proof marks on this Cape Gun. Here are the specs:

Action = underlever - extractors - engraved and cased - cocking indicators
Barrels = 27-5/8" - one standing and one folding rear site
LOP = 13-1/4" - over bufalo horn butt plate - set trigger on rifle
Weight = 6 pounds 9-1/2 ounces

here is the link to a full size image = http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/german-00000.jpg

[mike ford]

buckstix,
I can't make out all the marks, but here is what I see. The gun was proofed with a standard 20 ga.65mm (2-1/2") chamber and 19 ga. bore diameter ahead of the chamber. The proof was performed in Oct. (10th month) but I can't read the year. The ledger number is either 497 or 407. The rifle proof mark is not clear for the bore diameter but is 5.? mm. The case length is 35 mm, which is not correct for 22 Hornet. This case length is correct for the 5.6x35R Vierling, which is a very similar case to the Hornet. The Hornet rim is thicker than the Vierling's. If it had been proofed as a Hornet, the case length would be shown as 36mm. The Hornet is currently loaded much hotter than the Vierling and I believe the chamber has been modified to accept 22 Hornet ammo by deepening the rim recess. The main indicator (other than the description of the caliber) of this is the front sight looks to be a different, higher one. Since this was seemingly done without a reproof, it was likely done in the US. Whoever modified the rifle chamber may have also lengthened the shot chamber to 2 3/4" also, it is worth checking. The other proof marks are pretty much standard for Zella-Mehlis, with the Nitro proof written in script. As it happens our member John Laborde has a couple similar guns and included them in this article of a couple years ago in WAIDMANNSHEIL, about fun guns. I also have one in 24 ga. and 5.6x35R Vierling (not modified). Neither yours, nor John's seemed to carry a maker's mark, but mine seems to be marked " Germania Waffen Werks A, G,"(partly obscured by claw mount bases), which is Anschutz's(?) mark. I think John's (which he described as "top tang actions"), mine, and yours all were made by them. Of course, as always, I may be wrong.
Mike

[buckstix]

hello mike ford
thanks for the reply

looking closely with a 20 power loop, I can see the following .....

5.? .. is 5.4
ledger number .. is 407
looks like Oct 10.55 ... is it possible this could be as late as 1955?

any guess as to the maker? there are no other marks that I can find.

here are some different angles of the shotgun proofs .. (still not as clear as I can see with a 10 power jeweler's loop)

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/shotgun-proofs.jpg

shotgun-proofs.jpg

[algmule]

Neither yours, nor John's seemed to carry a maker's mark, but mine seems to be marked " Germania Waffen Werks A, G,"(partly obscured by claw mount bases), which is Anschutz's(?) mark. I think John's (which he described as "top tang actions"), mine, and yours all were made by them. Of course, as always, I may be wrong.
Mike

One of the images shows the Ansch?tz trade mark. I read 193?. Possibly the last digit is 5.

EDIT: image 5 from the top.
chrome_screenshot_1664226984248.png

Peter

[mike ford]

Peter,
Thanks, I didn't see the mark until you pointed it out.
buckstix
A 5.4mm is appropriate for the Vierling. BTW, slug your barrel as you may want to load .222 or .223" bullets, I use .223" in mine,
I couldn't see the date so I can't say 55 is not correct (they were starting to make guns again then) but I think Peter is more likely to be correct with 35.
Mike

[buckstix]

Hello algmule
Hello mike ford

Thanks for your reply

Here is an enlargement of that mark. According to the Anschutz History page on their web site, It is that of Anschutz starting in 1914.

Also, by looking at the date stamp more closely with a 20x jeweler's loop, I believe the date stamp is 10.35.

Now I would ask the question - why would such a fine piece not have the Anschutz name prominently displayed on the gun? Was this truly made by Anschutz or just sold by Anschutz? Is this rare? I sure would like to know these things.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/ans-mark.jpg

[mike ford]

buckstix,
It has been common for many years that manufacturers made many guns for "the trade"(not only foreign manufacturers but American as well). Instead of being sold to the end user, they would be sold to individual dealers and/or large supply houses (like Sears or Wards, etc.). Large supply houses may order them with their name/logo stamped already on the gun, individual dealers may order a smaller quantity and engrave/stamp their own name/logo on the guns or have someone else do it. Other individual dealers saved this expense and sold the guns to end users without being marked. This is the source of those guns that are often incorrectly called "guild guns", having had nothing to do with a guild.
Mike

[buckstix]

Hello mike ford,
Thanks for the reply.

So do you think this was made by Anschutz? ... or simply retailed by them?

[mike ford]

buckstix,
It was made by them and likely retailed by someone else. BTW, I believe you will have fun with it, the world is full of .223s so there is no need to hot load this rifle.
Mike