JP Sauer & Sohn, Suhl

[Ms2uared]

Hello All,

Excellent website with valuable information at our fingertips.

I have recently purchased a 12ga sxs and Im looking for information on whether is was:

1) made in Shul or in Zella Melhis
2) what other markings can be made
3) if the steel is actually Krupp as i dont see the ring stamp.
4) what the markings on the stock mean(GAF, FA)

What is the collectable difference between a Suhl proof vs. Zella Melhis proof?

[Ms2uared]

[mike ford]

Ms2squared,
The crown U under the eagle is the definitive proof, The crown W on the left barrel means it was choked, but constriction is not shown. The 12 in a circle means it has a standard 12 ga. chamber, which is 65mm or 2 5/8" long. The 13/1 is the bore diameter if the barrel, ahead of the chamber. In this case it is 18.26 mm. The crown Nitro indicates nitro proof, and being in block letters indicates proof in the Suhl proof house. The 12/23 indicated proof in Dec. of 1923, which is an early date mark, as earlier Suhl didn't date them. The 267 is in the form of a ledger number. I'm guessing this is the source of your question of where it was proofed because we usually say Suhl didn't show the ledger numbers. I think I recall reading that when Suhl first started dating them, they showed a few ledger numbers. I invite Axel's comments to this point and will defer to them. The "Fluss Stahl" which means fluid steel( sometimes shown as cast steel) This shows how the steel was produced, not that the barrels themselves were cast. "Fluss Stahl" is perfectly satisfactory barrel steel and the "Krupp Essen Fluss Stahl, Lauf Stahl, or similar marks" on other guns was mostly a matter of advertisement fot the gun makers. The small marks( FA, m, etc) are generally marks applied by workers to ID their work for payment purposes and to set responsibility for the work. There is no listing of these marks and except in unusual cases, trying to ID the workers is only an educated guess. The ""Wildman or Caveman' with a club was Sauer's "house mark". As far as the actual proof is concerned, each proof house had to meet the same standard. The "desirability" of one over the other is really just a reflection of the perception of the work performed in the surrounding area. The makers around Zella-Mehlis tended to produce more economical grade guns and target guns( there are always exceptions), whereas those in and around Suhl had the reputation of making "Higher end" or finer guns. Like "Krupp", "Suhl" was often used as advertisement. The initials in the shield on the stock are likely those of an owner.
Mike