J. BOERNER IN NEUWIED (Percussion Buchsflinte)

[Old No7]

Hello all:

I am waiting on more info from my twin, who is a BP collector and shooter; in fact, he has one of every blackpowder rifle carried by American troops. He also has a camel gun, a Hall rifle and carbine (breechloaders), a matchlock, blunderbuss and a hand cannon (mounted on a pole). He knows of my membership in the GGCA and of my interests in German guns, but this is his first one -- as he was quickly taken in by the quality of the Damascus and engraving, and the overall craftsmanship that it shows.

He said he paid $300 for it.

He owes me descriptions and images of any proof marks for this old German percussion Buchsflinte, but some images are below. I can see why he likes it! And he also owes me more info on the diameters of the rifle and shotgun bores, but he's asked me to proceed to post these images as he can't find any info online about the maker -- J. BOERNER IN NEUWIED.

He said the triggers, lock and bore are all in fine shape, and as he's an experienced blackpowder shooter, he will likely touch off a few light loads to try it out.

* Does anybody know of this maker?

* What would you value this piece at?

(Did he get a good deal, a real steal -- or did he get taken?)

Vielen danke!

Old No7

[mike ford]

Old No.7,
Our main interest is cartridge firing guns, of course some early cartridge gun makers started out making muzzle loading guns. My references do not show a J. Boerner in Neuwied, but others, here, have much better references than I, and one of them will come in with the information. The German proof law of 1891 was implemented in early 1893. Your brother's gun very well could have been made before then and may not have passed through a proof house. It is still important to post photos of all markings he can find on the gun. Makers then, as well as now used barrels, locks, etc. made by others that specialized in making these items. Some of these specialists had their own maker's marks which might be recognized, and the barrel set might have been made somewhere with earlier proof laws and may have been marked there( at least provisional proof). A s example, a significant number of Belgian barrels were used to build German guns and carry Belgian proof marks. This is obviously a very nice gun and it likely to have other markings and at $300, your brother didn't get taken. There is one possible hint, I didn't see a screw in the right trigger that indicates it is a set trigger. Does it have a set trigger for the left trigger? is the left barrel the rifle barrel, or is it the right barrel? The reason for these questions is , as a general rule, German and Austrian barrel-makers placed the rifle barrel on the right but Belgian and English makers mostly placed theirs on the left side. Sorry, I couldn't give more definitive information, I think someone else will come in and help.
Mike

[Old No7]

Thank you for your reply Mike.

I've added 2 more images sent by my twin (below), along with these other comments:

The right barrel is indeed the rifle, stamped "13.4", along with an "M" or "W" standing alone, with "GJ" stamped on the breech plug.

The smooth bore is stamped "14.0" and above that there is a "crown over B" (that's how it looks), and the letters "E over DG" in a circle, but no markings on the breech plug.

There is a screw adjustment between the two triggers, and it looks like there is an extra trigger bar up inside, but I cannot get the breech tang screw out so I can't drop the trigger plate/assembly. to confirm. But the rifle trigger will move forward some, so I believe there is a set trigger arrangement for the rifle (right) barrel.

There are no maker's marks inside the lock plates, but they look fantastic -- very well made!

We'd appreciate any other insights or info others may have on this maker and gun.

Vielen dank!

Old No7

[mike ford]

Old no 7,
I believe the "M" or "W" and "GJ " are workmen's touch marks, to insure both payment and assessment of liability for work they did. There is no legend or chart to show who they represent. If the E over DG in a circle, is actually E over LG, that mark would be an English BP proof for rifle barrels, used from 1811-1892. The same E over LG is also shown as a Belgian mark as the sole mark from 1810 until 1853; from then until 1893 it showed the definitive proof, and after that it was used only on muzzle loaders. If it really is a "D" not "L", I don't know what it is. It doesn't seem to be much help in dating it or identifying it. I think the numbers are in mm rather than gauge, if so, 13.4 mm is .528" and 14mm is .551".
Mike

[Old No7]

Thanks Mike, I will pass that along.

Old No7