1928 Zella-MehlisProof 16 x 16 x9.3 x 72 R Drilling?

[Bill Quillen]

A friend and fellow GGCA member has left this gun with me to try to determine as much of its lineage as possible. Please advise if anyone can determine if this gun was proofed in ZM as I suspect and what the 6 point star indicates.The 2.13 appears to refer to the rifle chamber . There are several 9.3 x 72 R cartridges included with the gun. I believe the gun was originally chambered for 2 9/16 and later opened to 2 3/4 in 16 ga.
Any clarification or correction of my interpretation of the markings would be appreciated.
Description of gun in pictures.

[Bill Quillen]

Forgot to add this to previous post titled 1928 Zella - Mehlis 16x16x9.3 x72R Drilling

[Axel E]

2.13 is the date of proof, February 1913, gun number 328 proofed that month. ZM is the mark of the Zella ? Mehlis proofhouse. I can not identify the star mark. It may stand for the real gunmaker who made the drilling ?for the trade?, to be retailed by another. Or it may be the mark of an unidentified barrelmaker.

[Bill Quillen]

Thanks Axel,
As always I am amazed by the knowledge and willingness to share displayed on this forum. It is encouraging to find such a collegial group while the media concentrates on the negative aspects of our society.
This gun looks to be in safe shooting condition but the hammer for the right shotgun barrel will not cock. Can anyone recommend a gunsmith . I live in Knoxville Tn.
I am not knowledgeable about rifle ammunition as shotguns are my interest. Are all 9.3 x72 R bullets safe to shoot in this rifle ?In other similar posts I have noticed reference to lead, jacketed and steel bullets as part of proof .

[mike ford]

billq,
Since Axel is addressing some issues, I will address a couple others that haven't been mentioned. The crown S proof shows proof for the use of shot. The left barrel shows a crown W, which means it is choked; the amount of constriction is not shown, however. The right barrel doesn't have this mark, therefore, it is cylinder bore. The crown U shows it underwent a "View" proof after a definitive proof. The View proof is a detailed inspection, including verification of dimensions. The 16 in a circle shows the gun originally had 65mm chambers. Since there is no crown R ( repair or reproof), this indicates the opening of the chambers to 2 3/4" and marking it as such was likely done in the US. The 16 and 17/1 ( no circle) represent bore diameters ahead of the chambers, expressed in gauge measurement. This works out to 16.81mm, for 16 and 16.64mm for 17/1.
Mike
I didn't take note of the written description until I had written the above. There are a couple differences between it and my assessment. While not important for safety or any technical reason; the animal described as an elk is really a Red Deer Stag. Likewise the deer are Reh ( Roe) deer.

[algmule]

Hello

I don't see this "GK" in any of the images. Could very well be down to my eyesight. However, I venture out into the unknown and give as a mere suggestion Gustav K?nig, Rohrmacher. He is the only one (listed) in Zella St. Blasii/Mehlis in 1912-13 to fit the initials GK. There were K?nig establishments in Zella St. Blasii (no, not any Gustav K?nig establishment) but I'm not aware any of them used a six point star as their trade mark.

The Gewehrlauffabriken that were listed for Zella St. Blasii and Mehlis in 1912-13 are the following

Heinrich Klett & S?hne, Zella St. Blasii (there was no G. Klett (listed) in Zella St. Blasii in 1912-13)
August Ansorg, Mehlis
W. Richard J?ger, Mehlis (sometimes listed as Richard W. J?ger)

If, as I believe, there wasn't any "hard border" between Suhl and Zella St. Blasii/Mehlis, "GK" may perhaps be for Gebr?der Kelber, but I'm not aware they ever used that as a marking on any barrels from their establishment. Six names from Suhl fit the initials GK in 1912-13, one B?chsenmachermeister and five B?chsenmachers. Three further Gewehrlauffabriken were listed for Suhl in 1912-13.

As for the question marks in the first paragraph, insert an Umlaut (two dots) over O's.

Nice Drilling. Thank you for posting.

Scroll down to see what a Rohrmacher performed
http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/abo...hrfabrikation/

GK could very well be for something else than the above.

EDIT: and for Richard W. J?ger, insert an Umlaut (see above) over an a instead of the question mark and in S?hne an Umlaut over an o and in Gebr?der a u with an Umlaut.

Kind regards
Peter

[Bill Quillen]

Thanks Mike and Peter,
I have used your information and what Axel sent to correct my description. Now if I can find a gunsmith to correct the cocking issue and determine If the cartridges included with the gun are correct..
The GK was located further up the rifle barrel than the picture showed.
Thanks again to all, Bill

[mike ford]

Bill,
The 8.8 on the rifle barrel is the bore( not groove or bullet) diameter which would fit several different cartridges. The fact that it came to you with 9.3x72R (norm?) cartridges is a good hint. If the 9.3x72R cartridges are "factory" and will chamber, that takes all but a couple or three other possibilities out of consideration. The 9.3x72R is much more common than any of the others, and while not 100% sure, I can say it is the most likely. If you need to be sure, you should make, or have someone else make a chamber cast. Measurements from the chamber cast will tell the tale. As far as someone to repair the gun, I suggest you select one of the gunsmiths advertising in the Trade Directory found in the WAIDMANNSHEIL or DER WAFFENSCHMEID. Since this is a little bit into the things Axel was addressing, you should accept his advice .
Mike