Drilling Proof Marks--Possible Maker's Mark?

[mike ford]

Peter,
The rim thickness for the 8x58R S&S is shown as 1.03mm, but when I thin rims, I fit them to the particular rifle by "cut and try" and then set a stop on the lathe before running the rest of the cases. The rim diameter of 38-55 is a little larger than the above listed cartridges but usually fits the extractor. By fitting closer they help to fireform the case evenly. Both 360 2 1/4" and 9.3x82 R can be used to form 8x58R S&S (as can 9.3x72R), but these cases are much "dearer" than 38-55 Win,( use original length; new factory ammo uses the shorter 30-30 length)( Starline makes both lengths).

Mike,
Check the marks again, note that the pre 1912 mark shows the weight of the proof powder charge, whereas the post 1912 mark doesn't show powder weight but shows bullet type and weight. The reason for the change was confusion caused when the end users bought ammo loaded with a heavier charge of a less powerful powder than the proof powder. They were afraid to use the ammo, even though it was really less powerful.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello

Ah, so Hermann Sepp took over the business after Robert Faller. As posted above, you may add 1911 to Faller's active period. It's either 1910 or 1911 as in 1909 Steinbrenner was still running the shop at Eisenbahnstra?e 4. The Drilling passed the Beschussanstalt in Suhl after the introduction of the new rules/markings.

Mike,
many thanks. Brass is expensive but the real cost is/are the die/s. Found one for 140 Euro. Only on order. I do have access to 9,3x72R brass as I have two Drillings in that calibre but 9,3x72R brass is not common here either. If Krank lists the 8x58R Sauer again one will be able to buy brass. As an aside, I noticed the 6,5x58R Sauer was in stock.

Kind regards
Peter

[MichaelZWilliamson]

It seems to be a combination of #19 and #20 on that page:
Image51.jpg

Image55.jpg

It has the crown over N, but then the gram charge under the steel jacket mark.

[algmule]

Hello

1911 it is, or rather was, when Faller took over the business at Eisenbahnstra?e 4.

Kind regards
Peter

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Ah, I already had this note:
Faller moved to town and took over that shop in 1911/early 1912 and had it for 3-4 years. His predecessor Steinbrenner is in the 1909 book (and at the same address Eisenbahnstra?e 4) but not after. It seems he died in 1909/1910 (no entry for 1910 at all) and the shop went to Faller in late 1911/early 1912. The predecessor of Steinbrenner was a Th. Ulberti. Faller's successor Sepp (1916) wasn't terribly successful either it seems. He shows up until the 1921 book and is gone in 1922 and after (not even listed as a resident).

Also, I believe the shotgun barrel steel (Balldan) is Polish. I looked it up, but can't find my current note.

[Axel E]

The Baildon Steelworks in Katowice, German Kattowitz, were in the Prussian (German!) province Upper Silesia when your drilling was made. The Versailles "Peace Treaty" gave that industrial area to Poland post-WW1. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baildon_Steelworks

[mike ford]

Mike,
Note that the pre 1912 mark includes weight of proof powder charge i.e. 2.67gr G.B.P( 2.67 grams Rifle Flake Powder)( in your sample above) whereas the post 1912 mark has the bullet type and weight i.e. Steel jacketed 12 grams.

Peter,
Kranks seems to be similar to our Buffalo Arms. The website, in your link, shows they have Bertram made 8x58 R S&S for Euro. 3.70 ea. At the same time, they have 38-55 ( 2.125") made by Starline for Euro,37.50 for 50 or Euro, 0.75 ea. As for dies, they carry LEE products which has a pretty complete line. It isn't always necessary to a different set of dies for each different caliber. For instance, I use one set of Lyman 8x57 dies to load 8x57 IS, IRS, I, IR, R/360, and 8x72R. This is possible by removing or changing the expander, changing shell holders, setting the sizer to the particular rifle's chamber, loading cases that were fireformed in the particular chamber and neck sized, and sometimes using .321" bullets in .318 rifle( after checking). When I helped my friend and mentor load for his 8x58R S&S, I did the same. An extra file trim die in 32-40 Win. is very helpful in forming cases to enable fireforming to calibers based on the .360 head size.
Mike

[MichaelZWilliamson]

The Baildon Steelworks in Katowice, German Kattowitz, were in the Prussian (German!) province Upper Silesia when your drilling was made. The Versailles "Peace Treaty" gave that industrial area to Poland post-WW1. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baildon_Steelworks

Thanks. Added to my notes.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Mike,
Note that the pre 1912 mark includes weight of proof powder charge i.e. 2.67gr G.B.P( 2.67 grams Rifle Flake Powder)( in your sample above) whereas the post 1912 mark has the bullet type and weight i.e. Steel jacketed 12 grams.

Yes, which is why I'm curious about the mark that combines elements of both. Is it transitional? Or an established mark I just haven't seen on one of these lists?

[algmule]

Hello

Axel,
for what it's worth: if I have performed my archeological work correctly the Baildon Steelworks had a "Filiale" (outlet I assume) in Berlin. Siemensstra?e 15 (1912,1914) and later on in Alte Jakobstra?e 85/86 (1920).

Mike,
you are a much more experienced in loading than me. I thought the 8x58R Sauer was out of stock at Kranks. Besides, I haven't bought the thing. Just contemplating doing so.

Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

Mike,
The P with crown, or N or Nitro( if block letters Suhl; if script, Zella Mehlis) show nitro proof. If the powder weight is shown it is pre 1912; if the bullet weight and type is shown its post 1911.

Peter,
Krank may be out of stock of the Bertram 8x58R S&S, I didn't check that. My point was that they have the original length 38-55 ( unless out of stock) and the Starline cases are much cheaper than the Bertram( when in stock).
Mike

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Mike,
The P with crown, or N or Nitro( if block letters Suhl; if script, Zella Mehlis) show nitro proof. If the powder weight is shown it is pre 1912; if the bullet weight and type is shown its post 1911.

Noted for my records. Thanks very much for all the help.