Another mystery rifle - Help needed to determine the maker - Sq Bridge Mauser Magnum

[buckstix]

Another Mystery Rifle - Help needed to determine the maker - Sq Bridge Mauser Magnum

This one is a real puzzle? I sure hope someone can help.

What is a real strange feature is that the action is an unmodified standard length Mauser action with 7-7/8" spacing between the trigger guard screws and it has a 1.410" diameter front receiver ring. However, the bolt is a "magnum length" bolt and is 3/8" longer than standard.


rifle specifications are as follows:

double-set triggers - greener safety - standard flag safety - weight is 9 pounds 4 ounces ... 14-5/8" LOP ...
26-3/4" octagon-to-round barrel ... barrel mounted sling swivel ... interchangeable front site blade ... pop-up cheek-piece
red silvers recoil pad - buffalo horn forend tip - 32 lines / inch checkering ... 2-panel grip checkering ...... single panel "wrap-under" forearm checkering.
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Here are some pictures. .. they are in order of the descriptions that I've written below.

..... overall pictures ... right and left ...

..... some details showing the trap grip cap ... engraving

..... the "Harry Snider" Gold signature on the floor-plate.

other pictures ....

left barrel flat is stamped "POLDI-ANTICORRO" .... and .... BEMESU (Bernard Merkel trademark) .... and .... "7 x 64" .... and "GERMANY"

left top angle flat is stamped ".30 H" ... (chamber cast shows 300 H&H caliber) and ... BBUNDEE ... and ... various Belgium Proofs.

left side of action forward ring has Belgium Proofs.

raised 1/4 rib has a large "2" engraved just forward of the receiver ... 1/4 raised rib has no rear sight. ...

there is a low full rib along the complete length of barrel transitioning into a front ramp. rib is matted full length.

rifle action has only the bases for a claw mount. there is one tapped hole added to the center of each claw base.

bolt handle is round bottom, oval shape with flat top that is engraved with a cross-hatched teardrop - bolt handle has Belgium Proofs.

barrel has serial number "17602" ... bottom of barrel has 2 inspection stamps "L" and "R" and a "1" - ahead of the action.

solid left wall action with no markings on the action except for a "tiny" inspection stamp on the bottom which I can't make out. (maybe "W" ?)

there are some small holes drilled into both sides of the front sight ramp.

Your comment are most welcome

[buckstix]

[buckstix]

[buckstix]

[Axel E]

Buckstix, not so unusual. This IS a true Mauser, Oberndorf, Magnum action! The screw spacing was the same on intermediate, standard and magnum length actions. On the Magnum receivers the recoil lug / srew hole is farther back in relation to the receiver ring than on standard length actions. Here is a photo of a standard length receiver. Compare it to your photo of your Magnum action.

BTW, a easy way to distinguish a rifle with an opened up standard length action from one with a true Magnum action: If there is a recoil crossbolt in the stock, it will be almost centered under the receiver ring on a standard length action, while it is markedly to the rear of the receiver ring on a Magnum length one.
Your rifle was originally an upgrade (half octagon barrel with integral rib, flattened bolt handle) Suhl type Mauser rifle in 7x64 Brenneke made by Bernhard Merkel, as you noted. The barrel was by the Suhl barrelmaker Louis Kelber. Some early 7x64 rifles were ideed built on Magnum actions to take Wilhelm Breneke's special load with a 173 gr "Torpedo Ideal" bullet seated out.
Post WW2 it was in Belgium. It was apparently rebored to .300 H&H . It was restocked and refinished too, reusing the original metal furniture for grip cap, Greener side safety and rising cheekpiece.
Apparently tis was done by Harry Snyder, who assigned his own serial number 2. I have nothing on a Harry Snyder, but about 1900 there was a C.Snyder mentioned among the Liege gunmakers. Maybe a relative?

[algmule]

Hello

014.JPG
K if you ask me. Kelber? Klett? I may have another suspect whose first name begins with a J. If the stylized L/Z (to the left is the added Z) is for Kelber he may have worked there. And yes, it's speculation.

Also: I'm having a hell of a time understanding the historical view on Bernhard Merkel given over at the Apel-site. If around the turn of the century means a year or two before the new markings were introduced in 1912, well, OK then. Bernhard Merkel is not to my knowledge listed under Firmen-Register for Suhl until earliest 1910 (possibility, not confirmed). 1912 definitely. However, he shares a telephone number with Franz Kettner (Inhaber of Eduard Kettner's in 1909) in 1909 but he is not listed as having a Gewehrfabrik/Waffenfabrik/Büchsenmacherei/Graveur-Anstalt etc. October 10th, 1918 there seems to be a (re-?)registration of the business Gewehrfabrik Bernhard Merkel, Inhaber Bernhard Merkel.

EDIT: "Merkel, Bernhard u. Franz Kettner, Gewehrfabrik". The telephone number was 137. EDIT again: Bernhard Merkel is however listed under Gewehrfabriken und Gewehrfabrikanten for the year 1909. I'm assuming Gewehrfabrikant but perhaps not a business under his own name, see above.

Late EDIT: I have added a Z in the text.
Kind regards
Peter

[Axel E]

älgmule, that "script Z" or "pound sterling" like mark is that of the barrelmaker Louis Kelber, Truebenbachstr. 1/3, founded 1894, still existed 1945.
The other, still unidentified mark is neither a simple K nor R, but much more complicated. Apparently another barrelmaker who did some work, chambering?, on this barrel. I suspect one of several Kletts.

According to Fritze's books Bernhard Merkel, 1874 – 1954, opened the shop of his own in 1905. The factory is still listed I 1945.
BTW, Franz Kettner, Hohestrasse 109, Köln/Cologne, founded 1835, Suhl branch at Judithstr.3 from 1920, and Eduard Kettner, Krebsgasse 5, Köln, founded 1865, with Suhl branch at Beiersgrund 3, were two rival companies, though originally branches of the same family. Same problem as with the various Merkels in Suhl, Anschütz in Zella –Mehlis or Reebs in Bonn.

[algmule]

Hello

I tend to see a difference between the markings. If I was unclear I express my deepest apologies.
012.jpg
The unidentified, more complex marking I may have a theory on. No worries, I shall keep it to myself.

As for the "Z". I always thought it was a Z from Old English. I am fully aware of the discussions that have gone on before about this marking. I believe in myself. Could well be for Kelber but not a single evidence has been presented, at least not to me. Below is what a Z in Old English looks/looked like.
010.JPG

Also:below are two images from 1909
1909.JPG
1909-2.JPG

The three Merkel businesses listed under Firmen-Register for Suhl in 1909 that I know of are: Gebrüder Merkel; Ernst August Merkel and Oskar Merkel & Co. If the book by Fritze has evidence for 1905 I will gladly accept that year.

Also again: apparently my name is causing tremendous troubles. I hereby let you know that if you are going to use älgmule please use the full von älgmule. I did not include the von when joining the forum cause I thought it might have sounded snobbish, but now you know. For those that have managed to grasp that my name is Peter, I will accept that as well. Thank you.

Another also: could someone who is native to English in future help me getting across what I mean so no further misunderstandings occur.

Late EDIT: all the other Merkels, Ernst, Ferdinand, Oskar and Paul, involved in the three above mentioned establishments used the title Gewehrfabrikant. As for for Gebhard who does not seem to have had a Suhl-address in 1909 I don't know but I boldly assume he did use the title Gewehrfabrikant too. Rosalie Merkel, part owner of Oskar Merkel & Co, maiden name Büttner, is a Frau. Bernhard and Otto Merkel went under the title Büchsenmacher. Bernhard, however, is also listed under Gewehrfabriken und Gewehrfabrikanten. YES, I'm aware you didn't necessarily need to have used Gewehrfabrikant as title when running a business, not even if you were a passive owner. I'd still accept 1905 if evidence is presented. In fact, I'd be pleased as it would fit better with other research.

Kind regards
Peter

[buckstix]

" ..... Buckstix, not so unusual. This IS a true Mauser, Oberndorf, Magnum action! The screw spacing was the same on intermediate, standard and magnum length actions. On the Magnum receivers the recoil lug / screw hole is farther back in relation to the receiver ring than on standard length actions. ...... Post WW2 it was in Belgium. It was apparently re-bored to .300 H&H . It was restocked and refinished too, reusing the original metal furniture for grip cap, Greener side safety and rising cheek-piece. ..... Apparently this was done by Harry Snyder, who assigned his own serial number 2. I have nothing on a Harry Snyder, .... "

Hello Axel E.

Thank you for the reply.

As in many so previous cases, you have answered my questions and solved the mystery of this rifle's making. Would you have any guess of when this rifle might have been originally made? .. and when it was re-bored to 300 H&H? I think the re-boring was done in Germany because the caliber marking is .30 H. I did find a similar caliber marking on a rifle built by Bernard Merkel. If it was re-bored here in the U.S. the caliber marking would have been 300 H&H.

As to Harry Snyder, I have discovered he was one of the founders of the Hoffman Arms Company, (along with Frank Hoffman and James Howe) which produced some best top quality rifles built on Mauser actions back in the mid 1920s here in the U.S. I have his book "Snyder's Book of Big Game Hunting" that has signature, and it exactly matches the Gold Inlay signature on the floor-plate of this rifle. In his book he mentions some of his "personal" rifles, one was a Mahillion in 300 Mag. I'm thinking that perhaps this rifle was that one.

[Axel E]

Dear Mr. Peter von Älgmule Esq., as the history of the Suhl gunmakers deviates too much from the topic of this thread, buckstix' Magum Mauser, I sent a PM.
Those barrelmaker's and outworker's marks were never registered or documented, as they were deemed important to the contemporary guntrade only. But there are a few exceptions. As the competing Kelber brothers were active until the end in 1945 and they both made many high quality barrels, their marks are still remembered. It is still common knowledge in Suhl that the "Z" or rather "British Libra (Latin) = pound" mark was the one of Louis Kelber, while Wilhelm signed his barrels WK.
Buckstix, your mention of "Hoffmann Arms" and "Mahillon" put me on the right track. Reread Jon Speed's first book "Mauser – Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles", pages 250 to 254 on Hoffmann Arms Co. and page 305 on H. Mahillon, Brussels. On page 252 Jon shows two photos of Harry Snyder's .404 rifle, number 4.
As the Belgian proofmarks show, the conversion to .300 H&H was done by or for Mahillon. The .30H caliber designation is part of the Belgian, Liege, proofmarks: B(alle) BLINDEE = jacketed bullet, PV = smokeless powder, crown/R = rifled barrel, star or crown/E(?) = inspector's mark, ELG = Liege proofhouse acceptance. I think the stock was made by Hoffmann Arms, reusing the German hardware, as the stock shape is neither German nor Belgian.
Poldi Anticorro was a high grade (read: expensive) rust resistant barrel steel by the Poldi steelworks in Kladno, Bohemia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kladno .
IMHO the rifle was originally made by Berhard Merkel as a 7x64 during the interwar years, soon converted by Mahillon and restocked by Hoffmann Arms in the 1930s. As such German barrels usually had an integral full length rib with a rear sight, the rib was likely milled down to the quarter rib shape by Hoffmann (Mr.Howe?), removing the rear sight dovetail. The threaded holes in the claw mount bases were certainly added later by an owner who wanted to use an American mount. The holes in the front sight base obviously served for fastening some cover.

[mike ford]

I don't have a "dog in this hunt", but note that the 300 H&H was called " Holland's Super .30" for some time after it's introduction in about 1925. I think it might have been about 1935, when Winchester-Western started loading it that it was called 300 H&H Mag.
Mike

[buckstix]

" .... I think the stock was made by Hoffmann Arms, reusing the German hardware, as the stock shape is neither German nor Belgian.

Hello Axel E.

Again, thank you so much for the detailed information. It will be recorded with the provenance for this rifle.

Do you think the stock may have been done by a German maker in an American Style? I ask this because I found a very faint pencil marking of the rifle's serial number ( 17602 ) in the barrel channel. I tried to take pictures, but I haven't been able to get a good one because the marking is so faint. Below are examples. The pencil writing looks like "German Style" based in the numbers "1" and "7" and "2".

Also, as a follow-up, I couldn't resist shooting the rifle, even though it has no sights or scope. I aimed with the front sight in groove of the front claw mount base as shown in the diagram. Surprising, I achieved "hunting accuracy" with this crude method of aiming.

[Axel E]

The stock may well have been made by a German stockmaker, but in America, not in Germany. During the first half of the century, many German gunsmithes went to the USA for employment. Some were to stay, others went back to their homeland after some years. Do you know the names of the stockmakers employed by Hoffmann Arms? "Hoffmann" itself is a German name. Many famous "American" gunsmithes were I fact immigrants from Germany and Austria, Wundhammer, Adolph, Pachmayr, Jaeger and many more. Many years ago I met an old stockmaker, Ed. Schweigert. As a young journeyman he too had worked in the USA for several years before WW2, even for Griffin & Howe, before going back and taking over the family shop in Augsburg.

[buckstix]

Hello Axel E

Thanks for the reply.

I'll keep researching. Perhaps someday I'll discover who made the stock. Now I'm searching for a bolt mounted peep sight so I can shoot more accurately. The crude method I used above won't do well at longer ranges.