Edgar Hubner

[R. Marshall]

Was he a maker or retailer?

[algmule]

Hello

Edgar Hübner, Gewehrfabrikant, am Roten Stein 6, Suhl. He is listed under the heading "Gewehrfabriken und Fabrikationsgeschäfte". There were other Hübner's involved in gun manufacturing in Suhl over the years. Proofs, please.

If I assume correctly there should be a date code marking somewhere on the thing. My German is far from perfect but I'd say the "Gepr." is for Geprüft, i.e., Geprüft Büchsenmachermeister.. Could be wrong, though.

EDIT: seems to have been a relatively brief enterprise for Edgar. At least in Suhl. No longer there around the mid 1930's. Again, based on the assumption that he was not in Suhl pre the introduction of date code markings.

Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

R.Marshall,
See my comments in Double Gun Forum.
Mike

[Axel E]

Edgar Hübner (= Huebner) was listed in Suhl from 1925 to 1942. But such "Tell type" single shot rifles were a typical product of the Zella-Mehlis guntrade. Most likely Hübner bought it in from Z-M, at least "in the white", but more likely as a finished gun, ready for resale. A common practice of Suhl gunmakers. Please, post a photo of all proofmarks under the barrel, to verify origin, date and original caliber. You have to take the foreend off to get at those important markings.

[R. Marshall]

here is the pic's of the proofs.. These cases are 52mm long... and I have 2 empty rounds that have been fired in this rifle. so i'm thinking it's now a 8.15x52r.

[R. Marshall]

ammo.. I'm guessing the guy that made the ammo didn't know what to call it so he put what it was closest to, 32-40?.....

[algmule]

Axel,
yes, correct, my bad, sorry. As Edgar was not listed among the other Hübner’s I assumed, incorrectly, that he was out of Suhl. I should have looked closer at Suhl 1 (Suhlerneundorf). Here are the other Hübner’s:
Alfred, Bauschlosser
Alwin, selbständige Kaufmann
Arthur, Gewehrteileprüfer
August, Fabrikant
Emil, Büchsenmacher, Am roten Stein 6!
Erwin, Klempner
Fritz, Schäfter
Gebhard, Büchsenmacher
Werner, Färbemeister

To make amends for my incorrect assumption I give the following:
Edgar Hübner, Büchsenmachermeister, Heinricherweg 16, Suhl 1 (Suhlerneundorf). At that address was also a Rudolf Sauerbrey, Systemmacher. Edgar is given as having a Waffen- und Munitionsgeschäfte, konzessionierte (spelling!) and is also listed under Büchsenmacher and the address given for those titles is Am roten Stein 6 ([1936]1937)/([1937]1938].

I don’t want to start an argument but I like to believe Edgar Hübner was in Suhl in 1924. I could very well be wrong. I’d better try and find out.

Also: Edgar was still in Suhl in 1949. At An der Hasel 63.

Also again: interesting EH marking. Is it safe to say it's for Edgar Hübner? Or perhaps for Emil Hübner?

Kind regards
Peter

[R. Marshall]

I found this tidbit:
Triebel weapon tools - history
History - Triebel weapons
Company founder Rudi Triebel, born in Suhl, traditionally learned gunsmithing. His teacher was Edgar Hübner, whom he greatly adored. As a journeyman Rudi Triebel built an Anson double shotgun.

Thanks for the replies
Robert

[Axel E]

As the rifle takes 52 mm long cases, it was certainly rechambered in some way. Or the 5.5 mm = .216" longer cases protude into the leade. You should make a chamber cast before using these ".30-40" loads. Originally, it was nitro proofed by the Suhl proofhouse for the 8.15x46R in 236 = February 1936. 7.7 mm was the bore/land (not groove or bullet!) diameter, 46 ½ mm the maximum case length, for a sevice load using a Blei Geschoss = lead bullet of 11 gramm = 170 gr. As it was built to use the then popular target cartridge and is mounted with a Hensoldt 2 ¾ x "Ziel-Dialyt" scope, it was certainly intended as a "Keilerbüchse", a rifle to be used in German hunter's target shooting matches. Most of the Keilerbüchsen date to the 1930s, as the 1934 German hunting law made target training and yearly competitions mandatory for all hunters. The rules prescribed hunting style rifles using a centerfire cartridge. Full blown Schuetzen rifles with exaggerated stocks and peep sights were not allowed, but scopes were regarded as hunting sights. As using real hunting rifles with full power, jacketed bullet factory loads in regular training was pretty expensive, such rifles fitting the rules were made to use the cheap to to reload 8.15x46R target cartridge. These cases were usually loaded with pre-packed powder loads and factory swaged lead bullets for target shooting. Typical velcities with the 11g = 170 gr lead bullets was about 1400 fps. In a pinch such rifles with copper jacket factory loads, 151 gr at 1900 fps, could be used for close range, up to 100 meter, roebuck shooting too, but use on any other hoofed game was and is illegal.

[algmule]

Hello

Not that it would be of any significant interest. Owner of the property Am roten Stein 6 was Emil Hübner. Edgar is at one time, before May 1925, listed as having a Büchsenmacherei at the address.

Also: beginnig to doubt my assumption that Edgar Hübner wasn't active in Suhl pre the introduction of date code markings. I may never find out.

Kind regards
Peter

[R. Marshall]

Good info!!
Thanks for the replies!!

[R. Marshall]

a few more pic's

[R. Marshall]

the chamber cast was a little awkward working around the extractor but I think it came out ok.
case length: 2.19-2.20 or 55mm
case diam at base: .4250 or 10.79mm
case diam at start of slight shoulder: .390 or 9.92mm
case diam at end of slight shoulder: .355 or 9.02mm
case diam at mouth: .3395 or 8.62mm

chamber neck: looks to be .265 or 6.74mm
bullet grooves .3185 or 8.09mm
bullet lands .3095 or 7.86mm

[mike ford]

Robert,
It looks like a 32-40 chamber in an 8mm barrel, considering the chamber has to be a little larger than the cartridge or it wouldn't chamber. It is not enough longer or larger in diameter to be more than would be expected. You can get Original length 38-55( 2.125-.130") cases from Starline, for 69 cents ea, as I remember. Cast bullets from .319-.321" should work fine also.
Mike

[R. Marshall]

Thanks Mike!