Question "Miller & Val. Greiss" Double Rifle - why no proof marks - 10x47r caliber ?

[buckstix]

Ahhh....good ol' double rifles chambered in cartridges for which there is no data. My first was that way, one of the most interesting and sometimes frustrating rifles I ever worked with...and I will never part with it. If you don't already have a Phd. in handloading you will by the time you get this one shooting together.

Hello sharps4590

Thanks for the reply.

This is the 23rd double rifle in my collection, and I've had 5 others that I've sold. I hand loaded ammo for all 28 of them. I'm not sure I have a Phd, but I have at least earned a Masters Degree in handloading for doubles.

buckstix,
Of course you are right that it is the barrel time in combination with recoil impulse. With regard to the distance, I'm not as sure, I never shot any at 50 feet( always 80-100 meters). If you can get a target at 100 meters that looks like the one above, frame it. I don't understand how you can shoot on one target and know which barrel made which hole. I have to shoot one barrel on one target and immediately shoot the other on another target( side by side). Then I have to lay one on the other to see if the rifle shoots wide or crosses. You are a better man than I. BTW, I don't know if 1340 fps is all that slow for the cartridge, I would have guessed factory velocity would have been 1400-1450 fps. I have nothing to go on, however.
Mike

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

I use only one target so as to be able to chronograph all my shots. When I tried using two targets, sometimes a reading would get missed. I've got my spotting scope setup so that I simply tilt my head to see the target. I fire the right barrel, look through the spotting scope to observe its location, and then fire the left barrel, look through the spotting scope again, and then record both locations with stick pins on a similar target at my shooting bench. Its pretty easy once you get used to it. Tomorrow I'm increasing the bullet weight to 265g and testing both AA5744 and IMR 4198 powders. I measured the case capacity with FFFg and found it to be 55 grains compressed to the base of the bullet. I might also try a couple of black powder loads just to see what velocity they show. I sure wish I could find what the original velocity was for this cartridge. Not knowing really keeps me guessing. More info tomorrow.

[buckstix]

Hello mike ford,

I think I've completed this task for now. As stated above, I loaded 4 cases with 55g FFFg and a 265g half-jacket bullet. The velocity measured 1215 fps with a 11 fps spread from low to high. I'm guessing that is pretty close to what this rifle was regulated to shoot. The 4-shot group went into a 1 hole group that measured a 3/8" spread. (first target) I couldn't really tell which were the rights and which were the lefts, but I don't think it matters. I do recall that the very first shot went dead-center.

I also loaded 4 cases with 26g AA5744 and the 265g half-jacket bullets. The velocity measured for these was 1345 fps with a 3 fps spread from low to high. Those also shot into a 1 hole group, albeit a little higher and to the left of center. (second target) That group measured a 1/4" spread. And, like the black powder group, I couldn't tell which were the rights and which were the lefts.

So, next time I shoot it will be on the outdoor 50 yard range. I won't be shooting any black powder, too much mess, smoke, and clean-up time. Besides, the AA5744 load has 6 pounds less recoil (10.9 ft/lbs vs 16.9 ft/lbs) and 190 ft/lbs more muzzle energy. (1055 ft/lbs vs 865 ft/lbs) Neither has enough energy for BIG GAME, but plenty good enough for Wisconsin White Tail Deer and smaller.

I'm pretty happy how this went.

[mike ford]

buckstix,
I rely on Brad Dixon's book for identifying old cartridges, not found anywhere else; but it does not show any bullet weights or velocities. That is a handicap. I'm a little surprised the velocity with a case full of black powder was as low as it was. Lack of experience makes you overestimate, I guess. I'm looking forward to your 100 yard targets.
Mike

[buckstix]

buckstix,
........ I'm a little surprised the velocity with a case full of black powder was as low as it was. Lack of experience makes you overestimate, I guess. I'm looking forward to your 100 yard targets.
Mike

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

I too was thinking velocity should have been higher. But 55g of FFFg was all I could "compress" into the case. And with the resulting group, I think I was "spot-on" with the 265g bullet weight. I will be checking the load on the 50 yard outdoor range soon. I don't shoot my doubles at longer distances because my old eyes aren't keen enough with iron sites. Targets to follow.

[mike ford]

I understand, my eyes are much older now than when I could do pretty well with open sights.
Mike

[buckstix]

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

All in all, I'm pretty happy how this project turned out.

Although this rifle is not intended for hunting BIG GAME, its plenty good enough for hunting Wisconsin White Tail Deer and other smaller game. ....

..... and for hunting the Ferocious Rabbits found in the Wisconsin North Woods. . . aka . "Bunny-Horribilous"

.



.

[mike ford]

That is a dangerous looking rabbit, don't let the children play with it.
Mike

[sharps4590]

Ahh!!! All the time I have spent in Wisconsin I was unaware such a beast existed up there. Not a lot different from our Sabre Toothed squirrels.....which I have no picture of but, they are evil/mean!!!

[buckstix]

Ahh!!! All the time I have spent in Wisconsin I was unaware such a beast existed up there. Not a lot different from our Sabre Toothed squirrels.....which I have no picture of but, they are evil/mean!!!

Hello sharps4590

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, we have those here in Wisconsin also. Another candidate for my Miller & Val Greiss double rifle.

[sharps4590]

I knew there had to be photographic evidence somewhere!

[Diz]

Buckstix, you are going to need a bigger rifle!