My first Hammer Drilling marks?

[jillandsam303]

Axel and Mike, I've just bought a drilling I'm going to have brought back life. It's a guild gun 16/16/ some variant of 8mm. The original caliber is not visible, but the load is. There are a few marks I can decipher and need your help. The proof date may be "28". Also, what is the "Pa" in front of Fluss Stahl? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Sam

P1130815.jpgP1130817.jpgP1130820.jpgP1130823.jpg

[mike ford]

Sam,
To positively ID the cartridge your drilling is chambered for, it will be necessary to make a chamber cast. The load on the drilling is, I believe, the proof load. It was proofed with 2 grams of Rifle Flake Powder and a steel jacketed bullet. I believe this was a proof load for more than one 8mm nominal cartridge. I don't believe the 28 is a date( I believe it was proofed before 1912). A date wasn't required, but I believe some designation of the caliber was required. Consequently, I think the 28 is part of the gauge designation 172,28 which is often found on 8mm rifles of different nominal cartridges. The finish in the area of the 28, being "bright" indicates the possibility of the 172 being worn/filed/or sanded off. Of course, this is only conjecture and could be entirely wrong. The "Pa" might be "Patented" ( Patented Fluid Steel), but this is also a guess. I expect Axel will be along later, with a better explanation.
Mike

[Axel E]

On most points I agree with Mike. Looking close at the photos, it is indeed theSuhl proofhouse pre.1912 gauge number 172.28 (.,/ interchangeable), indicating a bore/land (not groove or bullet!) diameter of .300 to .309", correct for an 8 mm, .318" bullet cartridge. The load information 2 gramm Gewehrblättchenpulver = 31 gr rifle flake powder / Stahlmantel Geschoss = steel jacketed bullet is pre-1912 style too. This load marking is not the proof load used in proofing the gun, but the service/using load the gunwas proofed for. Crown/N indicates smokeless/Nitro proof. The 2 g load points to one of the lighter 8 mm cartridges. Most likely either the tapered 8x58R S&S or the bottlenecked 8x57R 360. Both cartridges used the same loads and both have the same base diameter, about .30-30 size with a slightly smaller rim.

[jillandsam303]

Mike and Axel, you guys are GREAT. So much knowledge. Thanks so much.

Sam

[jillandsam303]

Cartridge Photos Website

Mike and Axel, you guys are GREAT. So much knowledge. Thanks so much.

Sam

Following up on Axel's thoughts my new drilling might be an 8x58R S&S, I found this site which appears to have photos of the base and shell of almost every cartridge manufactured.


http://www.cartridgecollector.net/8-x-58r-sauer-sohn

Sam

[mike ford]

Sam,
Thanks for the link. I especially took note of the Qual. Cart. headstamp, as far as I know this is a company that is fairly young and will likely still have cases. As Axel opined, the most likely cartridge for your drilling is 8x58R, but also mentioned 8x57R/360. Even though original 8x58R cases had a little larger head diameter, Qual. Cart. 8x58R cases can likely be fireformed to make 8x57R/360 cases( also original length 38-55 cases can be used, even though a little short and may require adjustment of rim diameter/thickness). Also possible, while less likely, the drilling could be chambered for 8.15x46R, or 8x48R. The most economical case for these would be to fireform and trim 30-30 cases( also with possible adjustments to the rims). Have fun.
Mike

[Axel E]

The "2 g G.B.P." service load marking speaks against both the 8.15x46R and the 8x48R.

[mike ford]

Axel,
Thanks