Waffen Schmidt Drilling info

[Airplanedoc]

Recently found a old German drilling, in the house. I know it was a bring back from the war, that my grandfather received just after the one who brought it back came home. My grandfather ended up with a c-96, 98, a Merkel drilling, and this one made by Schmidt. I really know nothing about it, and seem to be having trouble finding any.

Is Waffen Schmidt the same as Schmidt and Haberman??
Any idea as to its age?
Obviously condition has a large impact on value, but can someone get me in the ballpark?
I have been able to digest some of the proof marks, Any Info appreciated.

Pics are large so they are posted at link below

https://ibb.co/album/g5OHrF

Thanks

Airplanedoc

[Axel E]

Waffen - Schmidt was not Schmidt & Habermann, but listed as a dealer in Suhl in the 1930s - 40s. In 1945 not listed any more, but a gunmaker Franz Schmidt at Plan 5, Suhl, is. He was probably the man behind Waffen - Schmidt, but there were 9 other Schmidt listed in Suhl, many more in Zella -Mehlis and elsewhere.
Your drilling was proofed 936 = September 1936. The barrels were supplied by the Suhl barrelmaker Louis Kelber.

[mike ford]

Airplanedoc,
Waffen Schmidt was not the same as Schmidt and Haberman, the name Schmidt is about as common in Germany as Smith is in the USA. Herr Schmidt was likely an individual gunsmith in Suhl, that very nicely put together a drilling, using parts from a Suhl manufacturer. Axel has a good source of information about old gunsmiths, maybe he will offer up Herr Schmidt's history. The rifle is chambered for 8x57 IR, as shown by the 7.8 over 57. The number below this mark should represent the date the drilling was proofed. I read this number as 986, which can't be the date, because this would predate the Proof Law. I believe the number is actually 936, which would be Sept. 1936, and would be consistent with the other proof marks. The 16 in a circle, means the gun has 16 ga. 65mm (2 1/2-2 9/16") chambers. This is shorter than the current standard 2 3/4" chamber length. The 16/1 is the bore diameter ahead of the chambers, which works out to about 16.99 mm. The crown W means the barrels were choked, but does not show the amount of restriction. The eagle crown U, means it went through a View Proof, which was a detailed inspection( including checking dimensions), after a definitive proof firing. The 1145/2 seems to be the serial number, although the serial number on the action was not shown. What is a little unusual about the number is the /2 is that this is a marking system sometimes used to show an additional set of barrels. While more common with combination guns( BF & BBF), it can also include drillings. This opens the possibility that the barrels on the drilling are, a second set. If this is so, Sept 1936 might not be the date of the original proof. Maybe someone else will offer up another opinion. I hope this helps some. BTW, it was proofed for a 13 gram steel jacketed bullet.
Mike

[Airplanedoc]

Thanks for the info.

The receiver does have 1145 stamped in it on the left side and the right side has the eagle crown U.

The Proof stamp is 936

Trigger guard is staghorn

If there were another set of barrels with this gun, they unfortunately did not make it to thru the war with the set on the receiver.

Later this afternoon I will get out a dial caliper and check the muzzle to determine the constriction of the choke. Are the choke constrictions the same today as they were then?

Any idea as to the type of scope mount I should look for?

Added a couple more pics to the gallery

Thanks for the info so far

Airplanedoc

[mike ford]

Airplanedoc,

The eagle crown U on the receiver means the same as on the barrels. The 936 confirms the Sept 1936 date for proof of the barrels. The trigger guard is not really staghorn, rather it is Buffalo Horn, which was a traditional material for this use. War trophy firearms are usually found missing the scopes, often the forearms, and almost always any extra barrels or sights for target rifles. When they were ordered to be turned for destruction, the owners often kept what they could get by with keeping. I can't blame them for doing what I would have done, in the same situation. The choke constriction in this age guns was usually tighter than today, they didn't have shot cups/collars or buffered shot. If they are too tight for you, you can use "spreader" loads. Scope mounts are going to be a problem. The bases on the drilling are claw mount bases, and such mounts were individually fit to the gun and often soldered to the scope. A few gunsmiths are proficient at mounting scopes this way, some advertise in the Trade Directory found in WAIDMANNSHEIL, or DER WAFFENSCHMEID. There is also a possibility of changing from claw mounts to "swing" mounts. Some owners have made mounts for themselves or managed to adapt parts purchased on Ebay. This is a "catch as catch can" operation that requires a good understanding of how they work.
Mike

[Airplanedoc]

Thanks for the info Mike.

As I hear it my grandfathers friend was on the ship on the way back and a announcement was made about war trophy's not being allowed. He went on deck and dumped the content of his sea bag over the side and then collected any and all war trophy's anyone was scared to take off the ship. He claimed it took 2 guys to put his bag on his shoulder when he disembarked. When he got to the bottom of the gang plank, he saluted and ask for directions to the train station that would get him to Detroit. He then walked straight out the gate and got a cab to the train station. No one said a word about anything. When he got home, he called a bunch of friends, including my grandfather and divided up the spoils of war so to speak. My family got a c-96, K-98 1940 Berlin arsenal, a Merkel drilling, and this one. My dad vaguely remembers when this happened and says it was quite a haul of guns.

The choke measured just a bit tighter than full. The numbers are not at the desk at the moment. My dad assures me that it has shot plenty of pheasant, and I am a trap shooter anyway so a Full choke is normal for me. Not too worried about a scope mount if its going to be that much trouble, the flip ups will work just fine for me, but if it was something that might be available, I would have considered picking one up if I came across one.


AD

[mike ford]

Airplanedoc,
I wonder if your grandfather's friend was the one that started the "announcement". A lot was dependent on the local commander's prejudices. All my family was in the Pacific, and I have an Arisaki Type 38 that a great uncle brought back. He wasn't into guns, but told me that his whole unit was marched past a pile of rifles and told to pick out one to carry home. Of course, where and how you hunt makes all the difference, but I hunt often with my drillings. Scopes greatly expand their usefulness( as do the rimfire insert barrels). You have very nice guns, enjoy them.

Mike