Rare Unusual Hammer Double Rifle w/ "Double" Martini Action - Miller & Val.Greiss

[buckstix]

That is close. As Mike mentioned I'd sure try it at 75 and 100 just for my own edification. I'm impressed you got such good loads so quickly, a hearty WELL DONE!! That's a composite group of less than 1 1/2 inches and....from an old rifle chambered for an old cartridge for which you basically had no data, wow!! Centering it will be a snap. First double I worked with was German in 11.15 X 60R and it took me 6 months to get half that close.

Hello sharps4590,

Thanks for the reply.


Not sure I can see the iron sites well enough to shoot out to 100 yards, but I might try.

Here's an update from today's shooting test .... 4/28/18

I tried some Hornady 45 cal Flex-Tip bullets today. They weigh 325 grains, which is very close to the weight of one of the original bullets for the 11.6x65R. Back in the 1890's, the original bullet weighed 20.9 grams. ( = 323 grains )

And what a welcome surprise! Not only did they "un-cross" but they grouped better than any other load / bullet combination tested. Also, because these bullets have a "point" as opposed to a flat nose, these bullet have a higher ballistic coefficient. This, with the slight increase in weight, results in the ft/lbs energy increasing by about 150 ft/lbs over the entire 150 yard range.

I'm done! This will be my "best load" for this rifle from now on. I don't think I'll move the sights even though its shooting a little left.

It took only 92 shots to come to this final grouping.

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[mike ford]

buckstix,
That is great. In the Army, we had a saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Mike

[buckstix]

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

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I just had a friend email me to say I should have quit after the first 2 shots, or at least I should have taken a picture of that first pair. They were 1/2" apart. Well, OK, I did take a picture.
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[mike ford]

The fellow that emailed you was right. I had Walter Grass build a pair of o/u 9.3x74R barrels for me, I took it to test myself before he finished it, and the first two rounds were touching at 100 meters. I packed it up right then and left the range. I wouldn't even let him cut the regulating wedge off: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I told the story of that gun in "A Combination for All Seasons", in the issue of the journal dealing with combination guns. That set of 9.3 barrels was the second set on that gun. If you read the article, you will understand how lucky you are with this gun.
Mike

[buckstix]

The fellow that emailed you was right. I had Walter Grass build a pair of o/u 9.3x74R barrels for me, I took it to test myself before he finished it, and the first two rounds were touching at 100 meters. I packed it up right then and left the range. I wouldn't even let him cut the regulating wedge off: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I told the story of that gun in "A Combination for All Seasons", in the issue of the journal dealing with combination guns. That set of 9.3 barrels was the second set on that gun. If you read the article, you will understand how lucky you are with this gun.
Mike

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

Here's a post from a couple years ago when I had a 700ne built for me. I was working-up loads for it ......... welll .......... you'll see .......... >

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Hello all,

".... I was testing some lead bullet loads, and was having only marginal success, so I shot my standard regulation load with jacketed bullets just to check if all was well. It was. I shot a nice 2-1/4 inch 4 shot group with 1000g Woodleigh bullets. This rifle really likes those bullets.

Then Bill, a friend and fellow club member who was watching me shoot, asked if I had ever shot that 700NE Double Rifle totally offhand, without any rest what-so-ever. I said I had not, but was willing to try.

With that, I put up a fresh target at 50 yards. It was an 8-1/2 by 11 paper target with a 6" circle with a 1" thick ring. I asked Bill to watch through the spotting scope as I shot, and to keep track of which bullets went where, right and left. That way, I could concentrate on aiming and shooting, and not have to put down the rifle to record the shot locations.

I loaded a pair of my Woodleigh Bullet rounds and lifted the 18 pound rifle to my shoulder. As I brought up the sights to the target, I took carefully aim and with some mindful deliberation, squeezed the trigger. I fired the first shot, re-acquired the target, and fired the second shot about four seconds later. Both shots felt real good.

When I finished shooting, I turned to look at Bill. He was still looking through the spotting scope. He looked through the scope for quite a while, then looked at me, and then looked through the scope again. I said; "What's wrong, did I miss? Both shots felt real good." He then turned to look at me and started laughing. I asked him what was so funny, and why was he laughing. "Did I miss?" That only made Bill laugh harder. When I pushed him aside to look through the spotting scope myself, I too started laughing.

We both laughed for a while until Bill finally said; "If I hadn't seen the holes appear as you shot, I'd have never believed it", and we both laughed and laughed some more.

Then Bill asked me; "Are you gonna try it again?" I said; "Heck No! I think I'll quit while I'm ahead." And, I put the rifle away.


Although this was likely a "one time fluke",


I signed and dated the target, and I made Bill sign as a witness. The target is now laminated, and will be kept in the case with the rifle. The target shows a perfect 7/8" spread - exact barrel distance apart....."

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[mike ford]

Buckstix,
Yes, a double rifle should be shot with the second barrel, as quickly as the target can be acquired after the first shot. I learned to approximate off hand shooting by piling the bags up high enough that I sit upright and can rock backwards with the shots. Also, don't rest the rifle on the bags, I hold it in my left hand and rest the hand on the bag. A rear bag is ok, but hold the rifle to the shoulder, and pull it back with some force, like you were shooting in the field. This way it is problematical to determine which hole goes with which barrel. You solved it with a spotter; I use two targets, shooting one barrel at one target and the second barrel on the other. When the shooting is over lay one target on the other and mark the bullet holes. BTY let the barrels cool to ambient temperature between each pair of shots. I know you don't let the barrels cool in the field, but this exercise is to see where the gun shoots. The 700's group is great too.
Mike

[buckstix]

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

If you've followed my posts on various other forums over the years, you'd see my double rifle shooting technique. I've logged over 10,000 rounds shooting off my hind legs. Either totally free-hand, or from a supported standing bench set-up, or with shooting sticks. The rifle never touches a bag and I never shoot a double rifle from the bench. In addition, I built a "cooling tube" that is 36" long with a high speed fan at the end, so I can insert the rifle barrels in order to hasten cooling to ambient temperature. This works especially well when alternating between two doubles. While shooting one, I'm cooling the other. I don't use the two-target method because I chronograph each and every shot, and switching between targets sometimes results in the screens missing a round.

[mike ford]

buckstix,
Maybe I would shoot offhand too, if I were as good at it as you. The cooling tube seems like a good idea. I usually don't chronograph every round. We all do what works for us, I wouldn't put my results up against yours.
Mike

[buckstix]

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

About 25 years ago I competed in a 100 shot "offhand" small bore match. 10 shots on each of 10 targets at 50 feet with 22 rim-fire. At the time, I thought it "the Match from Hell". I swore I'd never do that again.

Then some years later I discovered Schuetzen competition. 100 shots offhand at 200 yards. 10 shots on each of 10 targets. I use a Stevens Pope 44-1/2 model 54 in 32/40 caliber. Now I shoot 100 shots "offhand" each morning before going to the Post Office to check my mail. It takes me a little over an hour. On good days, on a good target, I can keep all 10 shots in the 6" red bulls-eye. Now, 100 shot matches have a calming effect and seem relaxing. And, this has really helped my Double rifle shooting.

[chapmen]

Sometimes i open an thread and forget to breathe. Wow. My heart beats especially for falling blocks action- and Miller&Greiss are one of my interests in history and collecting. What an wonderfull rifle, an dream.
Is it possible to get pics from backside of the locks?

[buckstix]

Hello chapmen,

Thanks for the reply.

What do you mean by the "backside" of the locks?

Have you seen this type of exposed hammer Martini Style double rifle action before?

[chapmen]

Hello chapmen,

Thanks for the reply.

What do you mean by the "backside" of the locks?

Have you seen this type of exposed hammer Martini Style double rifle action before?

The "inside" ? I dont know how it is called in english.

No, i havent seen this type of rifle signed by Miller&Greiss. But i have an later hammer falling block "single" signed by Miller& Val. Greiss.
The locks are looking quite similar from the outside- so its just this interest for my question.

[buckstix]

The "inside" ? I dont know how it is called in english.

No, i havent seen this type of rifle signed by Miller&Greiss. But i have an later hammer falling block "single" signed by Miller& Val. Greiss.
The locks are looking quite similar from the outside- so its just this interest for my question.

Hello chapmen,

Thanks for the reply.

If you (or anyone else) ever find a scope with mounts that would fit my rifle, please let me know. I would like to buy it.

Here are some pictures of the rifle showing the insides.

[buckstix]

continued ....

[buckstix]

continued ........