Gebr.Krauss rifle

[PaulFan]

Hello All!

I'm new here, so I apologize if I make mistakes when creating a theme.

I got this 20th caliber rifle by inheritance. It has non-native barrels(photos where is the whole rifle) and native barrels which are destroyed(see photos). I found only one marking on native barrels surface "ALF"(see photo).

I'd like to know the information about this rifle.

Thank you for attention and for future answers.

[PaulFan]

Additional photos

[mike ford]

Paulfan,
Unfortunately, being computer "illiterate", I'm not able to magnify the photos you posted to be able to read many of the markings. It is pretty clear, from what I can see, that your shotgun (flinte) was made before March 1893, how long before, I cannot tell. This is known because it has no proofmarks, which were required after that date. Something caused the right barrel to rupture( likely an obstruction ahead of the chamber or maybe a high pressure cartridge the gun was not intended for), and someone in Duesselldorf made a new set of barrels for it. We can likely provide more information if you post better photos of the markings, and photos of the proofmarks on the bottom of the new barrels.
Mike

[PaulFan]

Mike,
I'm glad to see your answer!

Paulfan,
Unfortunately, being computer "illiterate", I'm not able to magnify the photos you posted to be able to read many of the markings. It is pretty clear, from what I can see, that your shotgun (flinte) was made before March 1893, how long before, I cannot tell. This is known because it has no proofmarks, which were required after that date.
...
We can likely provide more information if you post better photos of the markings, and photos of the proofmarks on the bottom of the new barrels.
...

It's a pity that the site does not allow to attach high-quality photos. I made new photos of bottoms of native and non-native barrels. To avoid confusion, in this post i will give a photo of native barrels marks, and in the next post- photo of non-native barrels marks. No more markings on both barrels.

...Something caused the right barrel to rupture( likely an obstruction ahead of the chamber or maybe a high pressure cartridge the gun was not intended for), and someone in Duesselldorf made a new set of barrels for it.
...
Mike

Native barrels were designed for smoky gunpowder. But once a cartridge with ordinary gunpowder was stuck in the barrels...result in the photo. It happened about 35 years ago already here, in Ukraine (then in the USSR). The local master equipped the rifle with new barrels, which he had. He did his job competently but not perfect.

Paul
ALF 1.jpgALF 2.jpg

[PaulFan]

Photos of non-native barrels marks. "2001"- this is the marking made when registering a rifle in the police.


NNB 1.jpgNNB 2.jpgNNB 3.jpg

[mike ford]

Paul,
Now that I have "the rest of the story", I'm afraid I won't be able to help you very much. The barrels on the gun now were not made for it, they were made for a different gun and fit to yours at a later time. When he fit the different barrels to your gun, your gunsmith removed what ever proofmarks were on them, leaving me no way to know the information about them. The initials on the original barrels, are likely the initials of the person that made them. There is no listing of names to match the initials, which were used make sure the gunmaker paid the barrelmaker for his work, and could hold him responsible, if they did not pass the proof testing. The "JB" on the replacement barrels may be the same type of mark, or may be the initials of your gunsmith. The "NP" on each barrel may be some kind of proof mark, or they may be the mark of the gunsmith. Again I don't know the rules in the Ukraine, so I don't the meaning of the "NP". Based on your reporting, the 2001 may be a date,or a police registration number, I have no way of knowing. Maybe one of our other Russian members, or one with Russian connections can provide better help.
Mike

[ellenbr]

Paul:

Could you email me the close-up images of the blown segment of the tube possibly along with different angles? The initials JB and AFL are of Belgian origin and centred around Lochet Fils?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[PaulFan]

...When he fit the different barrels to your gun, your gunsmith removed what ever proofmarks were on them, leaving me no way to know the information about them...The "JB" on the replacement barrels may be the same type of mark, or may be the initials of your gunsmith. The "NP" on each barrel may be some kind of proof mark, or they may be the mark of the gunsmith...

Maybe you're right. But the depth of surface that is cut off is small, and therefore it is unlikely that the marking has been removed. As you can see the marking "NP" is not deleted, but it is exactly native...marking "JB" also is native. This is because any marking in the USSR would have been Russian letters.

...Based on your reporting, the 2001 may be a date,or a police registration number, I have no way of knowing...

"2001"- this is the number assigned to the rifle by the police(this I see in the documents)

Mike, i am very grateful to you for your information!

[PaulFan]

Paul:

Could you email me the close-up images of the blown segment of the tube possibly along with different angles?

Of course, i will make such photos and send you.

The initials JB and AFL are of Belgian origin and centred around Lochet Fils?

I'm sorry, but I did not understand the question ... I know that they are native, but from what country I do not know. And what is "Lochet Fils"?

Thank you for answer!

[ellenbr]

That would be Lochet Brothers:

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...mille%20gb.htm

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[PaulFan]

Is there anyone on this forum who has a rifle made by Gebr.Krauss?

[PaulFan]

I'm surprised that there are no owners of similar guns. I thought that Gebr.Krauss rifles are widespread.

[mike ford]

PaulFan,
It is not that unusual that none of us has a Gebr. Krauss gun. They were in business a long time ago and time takes it's toll on every thing, including guns. You can tell this by your original barrels being blown up. Also they were not a large firm, so there would not have been a great many guns marketed by them. There have been two World Wars since they were in business and wars destroy a lot of property, including guns. After some wars, especially WW2, all guns in particular areas are collected to be destroyed ( a few of which may be saved by soldiers as trophies). Lastly, there are not a lot of German Gun Collectors Assn. members, and not all of us are active on this forum.
Mike

[algmule]

Hello

No, I don't own a shotgun from (by?) Gebr?der Kraus/s. However, their names were Friedrich and Wilhelm. At the time your shotgun was retailed/manufactured their business was located at Altenhof 13, Coblenz. Local competition at the time was F. A. Krumm and A. F. W. Timner.

With that engraving it must have been some high grade shotgun for its time. I like it.

Anyone any thoughts on this?
kraus3.JPG

Kind regards
Peter