Please help to explain the marking I found on this 450-400 EXPRESS Double Rifle

[buckstix]

Hello All,

Please help explain the marking I found on this 450-400 EXPRESS 3-1/4" Double Rifle.

Based on the style, and the serial number, and the mfg date, I think this might be a low-grade Francotte and would like to know if anyone can confirm this.

Features:
Reinforced Frame
Bushed Firing Pins
Engraved
7 lbs 11 oz (7 lbs 15 oz loaded)
14-3/4" LOP
Greener Cross Bolt w/ Rib Ext
non-automatic safety
26" Bbls
2-Leaf Express Site (100 / 200)


Markings on the barrels (see pics) = "ACIER MARTELE" - "958" - "1462" - ".450-400 EXPRESS 3-1/4" - "JAMIN" - "STAR / T" - "CROWN / JF" - "10.1" - "EL" - "B.BLINDEE"

[buckstix]

Marking found on the face of the action between the firing pins (see pics) = "BE" ? MONOGRAM

[ellenbr]

Not sure on the monogram, but I'd lean toward Marcel Jamin of Saint Léonard, 41 in Liege & was registered w/ the Liege proof facility between the years of 1910 - 1933. I'll look a bit more for the monogram on the standing breech. If the lettre annale is a g(1928) then that would fit well w/ the 1910 - 1933 registration period. Jamin did lean on Jean Falla for his expertise in tube making so the JF surmounted by a crown may be the touchmark of Jean Falla but he was registered w/ the Liege proof facility from 1931 forward. I've viewed a few more late 1920s tubes w/ the JF surmounted by a crown and I'm leaning to those also being that of Jean Falla while he was working at Joseph Cap. I was also hazard a guess that Falla married into the Cap family or that he purchased the Cap concern. ACIER MARTELE is the steel recipe or type that Falla used. It is possible that Cap or Falla had trademark protection on the term ACIER MARTELE. B. Blindée or Balle Blindée denotes proofed w/ an armoured bullet or jacketed bullet. The T surmounted by a Star is the stamp of the Liege contrôleur or inspector.

I see no evidence that this passed thru Francotte's shop.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Seems Marcel Jamin used one monogram of a MJ in a chevron or diamond on some of his wares:

http://mallorquina.pagesperso-orange...urce/pageJ.htm

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[buckstix]

Not sure on the monogram, but I'd lean toward Marcel Jamin of Saint Léonard, 41 in Liege & was registered w/ the Liege proof facility between the years of 1910 - 1933. I'll look a bit more for the monogram on the standing breech. If the lettre annale is a g(1928) then that would fit well w/ the 1910 - 1933 registration period. Jamin did lean on Jean Falla for his expertise in tube making so the JF surmounted by a crown may be the touchmark of Jean Falla but he was registered w/ the Liege proof facility from 1931 forward. I've viewed a few more late 1920s tubes w/ the JF surmounted by a crown and I'm leaning to those also being that of Jean Falla while he was working at Joseph Cap. I was also hazard a guess that Falla married into the Cap family or that he purchased the Cap concern. ACIER MARTELE is the steel recipe or type that Falla used. It is possible that Cap or Falla had trademark protection on the term ACIER MARTELE. B. Blindée or Balle Blindée denotes proofed w/ an armoured bullet or jacketed bullet. The T surmounted by a Star is the stamp of the Liege contrôleur or inspector.

I see no evidence that this passed thru Francotte's shop.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Hello ellenbr,

Thanks for the reply.

I appreciate the info.

The only reason I suggested Francotte as a possible maker is that the serial number falls exactly in the 1928 range for "Bottom Grade" guns, (see chart) and many of the features of this double rifle are the same as those I found on a few other Francotte double rifles pictured on the internet. Features such as: "lever position", "safety", "cross bolt", "rear sight rib", "front sight ramp", "forearm", etc.

The "monogram" on the standing breech is very distinctive, and I know many maker-marks are found in this location. Hopefully someone might recognize this and reply.

Buck

[ellenbr]

Really not much joy on a search for info on Fabrication Artisanal Belge Marcel Jamin Armurier à Liège, Arquebusier Marcel Jamin à Liège or similar.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Ses Marques Déposée:

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...&Number=456209

Jean Falla à Liège: Siemens Martin Acier Martelé CAP (Siemens Martin Hammered Steel Cap).

Delcour - Dupont à Nessonvaux: Acier Martelé Siemens Martin (Hammered Steel Siemens Martin).

H.D.H.(Messieurs d’armes Henrion, Dassy & Heuschen) à Liège: Acier Spécial Siemens Martin (Special Steel Siemens Martin).

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[buckstix]

Hello ellenbr,

Thanks for the reply.

So, here is what I've found out so far. Does all this sound correct?

Any comments or corrections would be appreciated.

JAMIN = Marcel Jamin = Gun Maker
Crown/JF = Jean Falla = Barrel Maker
Acier Martele = Hammer Forged Steel
.450/400 EXPRESS 3-1/4" = Caliber
B.BLINDEE = Proofed with Jacketed Bullet
g = Date Code = 1928
Lion/P.V. = Nitro Proof Mark
*/T = Inspector Mark
*/P = Inspector Mark
10.1 = Bore dia.
958 = Assembly number
1462 = Serial number
Monogram = Unknown ? = perhaps retailer ?

[ellenbr]

That would be g for the lettre annale or datecode.

Cheers,


Raimey
rse

[buckstix]

Thanks to all that helped with information.

Based on the latest information from Axel E., he suggested Braekers as being the possible maker;

Ets. Braekers SA (=societe anonyme = plc), Rue du Crucifix 21 -39, Herstal. .... listed as "Fabricants des armes" = gunmaker.

I searched the internet and found this example. Although the pictures are not very clear, You can still make out the name "Braekers" and "Herstal".



In addition, There is a monogram on the top of the rib that matches the monogram on my rifle.

Although the monogram is typically referenced as "EB", I think perhaps it might be the letters "BCC" which could stand for "Braekers, Charles & Cie". (two opposing "C"'s with the letter "B" intertwined ? ? ? )



Also, there is a small distinct feature on the two actions that match on the guns. A small "raised" island that acts as a "stop" for the lever. I have not yet found this feature by any other maker.



As always, your comments are welcome.

[ellenbr]

Yes, Charles Braekers & Cie would be a lovely guess. One sees a similar stop on French double based on a V-C design.

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...20cie%20gb.htm

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

i.e. either Braekers lifted it from V-C or Braekers was a subcontractor to V-C.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

I'd still content that Arquebusier Marcel Jamin à Liège at the very least retailed it & more than likely sourced the platform from Charles Braekers & Cie in an in the white state.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[buckstix]

Thanks again to all.

For those that would like to see some additional photos of the rifle - here are a few.

[buckstix]