Is this a Simson or a Kettner

[R. Marshall]

Robert,
I think it was Schilling Forge, the "S" enclosed in a "lozenge"(?) is often found on rifles from different makers. BTW the reason the markings on your and algemule's rifles look similar is because they are proof marks placed by the same Proof House (Suhl), and not either of the makers ( nor Peter's Remo). A friend of mine loaded for his Ed.Kettner double rifle in 9x58 1/2R, so I am only a little bit familiar with it. He used .358" bullets, because that was the groove diameter as shown by slugging the barrels. He used shortened 9.3x72R cases, but I am always hesitant to cut that much off the 72mm long case, when I don't know if I may find a rifle that needs the full length case. Of course, using them is strictly a personal decision. If I had a rifle in this caliber, I would use original length( 2.125-2.130") 38-55 Winchester cases with the bullets "loaded out" to make up for the slightly shorter length. The rims might need to be adjusted for diameter or thickness, depending on rim recess in the particular rifle. For powder types and charge weights, your brother can be guided by the British 360 2 1/4"( 9.3x57R), 38-55, .358(38)/30-30 wildcat, or similar obsolete cartridges. Note that the above 9.3x57R is not a rimmed version of the 9.3x57 Mauser and powder charges for that cartridge must not be used.
Mike

Thanks Mike. Did your friend have to adjust the rim on the 9.3x72R case?

[algmule]

Hello

mike ford,

would you be so kind as to tell me what the marking is if it's a proofmark?

mikeford.jpg

EDIT: also, it's not my Remo Popular.

Peter

[mike ford]

Robert,
If 9.3x72R cases are used, the rims usually fit, they are not as large in diameter, nor as thick as the 30-30/38-55 family of cartridges.
Mike

[mike ford]

algmule,
Since you didn't have the red arrow in the other photo, I thought you were talking about the 8.8 mm, 58 1/2, crown U, etc. Thousand Pardons.

[algmule]

Hello

mike ford,

apologies accepted and Ich bitte für die Unannehmlichkeiten um Entschuldigung und informieren Sie zeitnah über das Erscheinen der Änderungen. Here goes
mikefordagain.jpg

Also: you may remember this thread where there was also a red arrow, well, actually, you didn't
http://www.germanguns.com/upload/sho...n-Remo-Popular

Also again: my name is still Peter.

Robert,
awfully sorry for OCP.

Kind regards
Peter

[ellenbr]

Moose Snoot, that Uppercase & Underscored ES, which may just point to E. Schilling seeing there is a SS or S. Schilling type stamp. Also there is an Imperial Eagle surmounted by a crown present on it that is also seen on early Sauer wares & was some sort of process mark or a Sauer subcontractor's mark. It resembles the Gebrüder Langguth Imperial Eagle less the script L in it's tail.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Also forgot to note that the script H on the frame is also seen quite often & much have noted a H frame mechanic or actioner.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[R. Marshall]

Thanks Raimey! What is the W stamp below the pistol grip?

[ellenbr]

You know Robert, of the pertinent mechanics in Suhl & Z-M, even in alphabetic order the stock/wood-working mechanics fall in last place: Büchsenmacher, Graveure, Rohrschmiedemeister, Schäfter. While the Rohrschmiedemeister had the most liability, the attributed effort of the Graveure & the Schäfter are the most difficult to kraal, with the Schäfter being the most unappreciated. I believe it was Kreighoff that stated something to the effect that the longarm shoots but the stock hits. With all that said, I really haven't gotten around to finding a list of Schäfters. But I'll see what I can ferret out in the W category. What might be the text or characters beside it?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[mike ford]

Peter,
As I said in my first comment in this thread, I don't claim to know what these initials mean, it would only be speculation, if I tried.

[R. Marshall]

You know Robert, of the pertinent mechanics in Suhl & Z-M, even in alphabetic order the stock/wood-working mechanics fall in last place: Büchsenmacher, Graveure, Rohrschmiedemeister, Schäfter. While the Rohrschmiedemeister had the most liability, the attributed effort of the Graveure & the Schäfter are the most difficult to kraal, with the Schäfter being the most unappreciated. I believe it was Kreighoff that stated something to the effect that the longarm shoots but the stock hits. With all that said, I really haven't gotten around to finding a list of Schäfters. But I'll see what I can ferret out in the W category. What might be the text or characters beside it?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey it is hard to make out but it could be a G above the W.

Thanks,
Robert

[Axel E]

Kellner & Pape have two Schäfter = stockmakers named Weiss in Suhl, Otto and August, both with the same address, Kleine Anspelsteasse 1. But there were certainly others with the initial W . Unfortunately most specialized craftsmen like actioners, barrelmakers, lockmakers, hardeners and so on were merely listed as Büchsenmacher = gunmakers.

[ellenbr]

Yeah, in the mid 1800s, Hermann Wendel along w/ Caspar Werner & Christian Werner are listed as a Schäftermeister. So if those mechanics had sons that followed in their footsteps, then those families would have descendants that would be in the woodworking trade.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

Of the 2 Wendel and 31 Werner, 3 G.W. among them, noone is listed as Schäfter, all are called Büchsenmacher.

[ellenbr]

I'm confident that the two stamps on the stock below the grip cap note @ least 2 different compensation / liability designations. One is perpendicular to the other & different font & size. The upper one looks to be MG or similar & the other W of course.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse