Welke Sidelock Drilling?

[ellenbr]

I haven't performed many correlations just yet, but I would hazard a guess the retailer received aide from either Foerster or Geyger in placing the order.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

Also the chambers were # +/- 2.5mm & I have always assumed they were +2.5mm before something was considered an alteration . So one could easily be 65+2.5mm and that gets you around the proverbial 67.5 mm.

CIP chambers for 65 mm = 2 ½" AND 67.5 mm loads are 65.1 mm (+ 2 mm, no -) , 70 mm = 2 ¾" are 69.9 mm (+ 2 mm, no - ). Tere are some misconceptions about the shotshells with 67.5 mm case length. You will never find a gun marked for this case length. Cartridges with this intermediate dimension are a quite recent, 1980s, development. Case length is measured on the fired hull, crimp unfolded. The shotgun chamber and bore dimensions were established with thick-walled, roll crimp paper hulls in mind. When shooting such a 70 mm shell in a 65 mm chamber, the thick crimp portion of the case will unfold into the forcing cone and form an obstruction, maybe raising pressures to dangerous levels. From the 1960s on plastic hulls with star crimps came into general use. Such modern cases have much thinner walls than the old paper ones. At the same time a star crimp eats up much more loadable case length than a roll crimp with over shot "wad", reducing case capacity. As European ammo makers and proofhouses found out, thin-walled plastic hulls can be made 2.5 mm longer without forming auch an obstruction in the forcing cones designed for paper hulls originally. At the same time 2.5 mm length for the payload are gained. So plastic cased, star crimped 67.5 mm loads were introduced as "universal" cartridges, useable in both 65 and 70 mm chambers.

[ellenbr]

Axel:

Lovely little harangue there. But your info seems mixed in time. CIP didn't surface until much later. I was really concerned w/ the period up till the 1939 rules. Maybe I should have stated the alteration was either less than 2.5mm or greater than 2.5mm. If you could while you are celebrating Marlene Dietrich's birthday as you toke on your Meerschaum pipe, composed of Meerschaum(sea foam) you plucked from the Black Sea w/ your own two hands, could you point me to a source, chapter & verse when this info might be located?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[ellenbr]

Once again Axel, if you can pull yourself away from your Meerschaum pipe stuffed w/ whatever plant you smoke, did you infer that the accentuated Greener crossbolt was concealed by the adornment of the fences? Better stated is the function of the Greener crossbolt masked by the form of the adornment?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[Axel E]

Raimey, you grossly underrate the age of the CIP, the permament international commission of proofhouses. Please, reread the article "Normalisation" in "Waidmannsheil # 56". From 1910 to 1913 various represenratives of the European proofhouses met to establish standards for shot barrels and cartridges. In 1914 these commission meetings were installed as the CIP. A year earlier, 1913, one of these commissions converted the then new barrel, chamber and case dimensions of the Birmingham proofhouse from inches to millimeters and set them up as standard. These dimensions were published in "Der Waffenschmied" #6, March 1913. These dimensions are unchanged to this day. There never was a tolerance below, -, on the minimum chamber dimensions, nor one above, +, in maximum cartridge dimensions. BTW, your beloved, US only SAAMI was founded in 1926, 8 years after the CIP.

[Axel E]

did you infer that the accentuated Greener crossbolt was concealed by the adornment of the fences? Better stated is the function of the Greener crossbolt masked by the form of the adornment?

I mean the existence of a Greener crossbolt is accentuated by the two round protusions on the fences. On opening such a gun the crossbolt protudes from the left one. Maybe it serves as an (unnecessary) further stabilisation of the crossbolt ? The protusion on the right has no technical function at all, it's merely a decoration, making the action symmetrical.

[ellenbr]

Axel E.:

I'll have to re-read, but WWI disrupted the efforts of the proof commission and the members really didn't make any advancements until say 1924? Then some European states didn't join till post WWII. Not sure it was universally adopted to much later. Some states agreed but did not pen it into law till much later. Tell the truth, have you actually plucked some Meerschaum(Sepolite) out of the Black Sea?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[algmule]

Hello

If anyone should be remotely interested here goes.

He seems to have moved around a bit our A(lbert) Welke. In 1924 I have him in Dresdener Straße 103. In 1929 his abode was Friedrichstraße 131 and in 1937 Welke, Albert, Büchsenmacher was in NW7 Karlstraße 19a. There was another Welke, a H. Welke, in Karlstraße 19a in 1937 - H. Welke Waffen, mech[anische] Büchsenmacherei NW7, Karlstraße 19a/T.420551.

I have no explanation for the 131 in the second address but that's what it says.

EDIT: Heinz Welke, Büchsenmachermeister, was still at Karlstraße 19a in 1943.

Kind regards
Peter