Help identifying Mauser Proof Marks

[pete]

Good Day to all.

My name is Pete and I have an interesting Mauser Rifle I need help identifying. There are no proof marks on the surface of the gun only very intricate engraving over 80+% 0f the rifle. Obviously it was a made to order hunting rifle but by whom and when/where?? I believe, but cannot prove, that it was made out of a Model 98, post World War 1 but pre World War 2. Could this be a rifle made by A.Stover, of Nordhausen??? I have included several pictures of the proof marks (Please help identify) and the very expertly done engraving. Whoever this this work was a true craftsman.
I look forward to your responses. Also, since there are no manly animals only floral designs....could this have been a special order for a lady???
Hope you enjoy the pictures.
Petethumbnail_IMG_20170920_181133493.jpgthumbnail_IMG_20170920_181143604.jpgthumbnail_IMG_20170920_181234020.jpgthumbnail_IMG_20170920_181334876.jpgthumbnail_mauser%20karks.jpg

[pete]

Here are two more pictures. Pete

[algmule]

Hello

pete,
if you by A. Stover, Nordhausen, mean Adolf Ströver, Nordhausen it may be of importance to know that he passed in 1901. The business was taken over by Johanna Ströver and Büchsenmacher Carl Ströver. If they continued to do business under the name Adolf Ströver I don't know. If there was an A. Stover of Nordhausen he is unknown to me.

Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

Pete, the pictures did not come through for these two attachments. The rifle, in my opinion was made from a surplus WW1 Kar 98, note it is a "small ring", the arsenal that made the most of them was Erfurt. A. Stover was likely the one that marketed it. The style is pretty standard for the period around WW1. It could have been a special order rifle or a deluxe "stock" rifle, you may not be able to determine which. If you can have the other photos posted and maybe clean up the glare from some if the ones that did come through, we may be able to tell you more. This assumes one of the photos includes the actual proof marks on the bottom of the barrel.
Mike

[pete]

Mike,
Good day.
Here I will try again to send those two pictures. As to cleaning up the glare on the other posts. Sorry, the gun is not mine, I wish that it were. Helping a friend from church . He finds them and I do the research.(or try too???!!). I will see if he can send additional pictures. Hopefully, here are the two that didn't turn out.
Thank you for the info on the gun. I just wonder if it is 7.92 mm.... or converted??? Have to check into that. If you look on the marks on the underside of the barrel. Enlarge the eagle. For lack of a better term. It appears to have breasts??? Can you identify??? Is the # PC 935. Is that a serial #?
thumbnail_mauser%20markings.jpgthumbnail_proof%20mark.jpg
Pete

[pete]

Mike,
Good day.
Here I will try again to send those two pictures. As to cleaning up the glare on the other posts. Sorry, the gun is not mine, I wish that it were. Helping a friend from church . He finds them and I do the research.(or try too???!!). I will see if he can send additional pictures. Hopefully, here are the two that didn't turn out.
Thank you for the info on the gun. I just wonder if it is 7.92 mm.... or converted??? Have to check into that. If you look on the marks on the underside of the barrel. Enlarge the eagle. For lack of a better term. It appears to have breasts??? Can you identify??? Is the # PC 935. Is that a serial #?

Pete

[pete]

Peter,
Thank you for the info on A.Stover. Couldn't find much at all on the Computer. On The Gun Brokers site they had a similar type of Mauser advertised. They used the name A.Stover. Since that Mauser was similar to the one I am trying to find info on I thought that it was indeed one of his.
Have a good day.
Pete

[sharps4590]

I just bought a pre-war "A. Strover in Nordhausen" 98 Mauser in 8 X 57. I don't have the rifle yet so can't offer anything in comparison but here's a link to it. I believe yours is older and it's obvious yours has better engraving......but mine has a Lyman........if you like them.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100870833

[mike ford]

Pete,
I'm sorry, I still can't make out the proof marks. I can't even determine the caliber, except an out and out guess of one of the 8x57s. None of the marks on the bottom of the receiver are proof marks, rather they are marks applied by workers that did different operations on it. These were only used by Arsenal supervisors to fix responsibility for the work( quality control). After the rifle was converted to a sporter, it would have been submitted to a proof house for testing. Depending on the proof house and the date submitted, it may have been dated( we know it would have been post WW1). as to when it was submitted. Also location of the proof house would give a general idea of where it was converted. Maybe your friend can provide additional photos.
Mike

[pete]

Sharps4590.
Hello. I must tell you that the rifle you purchased on Guns International, is the gun I saw when I was first researching this rifle. It has several similarities that I hope I am not wrong in saying, resemble this rifle. When you receive your rifle and begin to examine it, I would very much like to see some pictures of it. Hoping that your rifle has some of the same "proof/inspection marks" as the rifle I am trying to identify. Have a good day
Pete

[pete]

Hello Mike,
I am sorry you continue to have difficulty making out the "proof" marks. They are clear at this end. Perhaps if I write them down for you. it is worth a try. The picture of the barrel: First off there is a number on the under side of the Barrel, it reads, PC935. The" P" could also be a "B" instead. Stamped in the center of the underside of the barrel is an Eagle, For better or worse Mike, when you enlarge the pic. the Eagle has what appears to be "Breasts". Yep that's what they look like. An eagle with lady parts!!! Under the Eagle are two additional marks. One is a crown over a Letter. Sorry can't make out what it is. The other is another letter, can't make that one out either. The other picture you have already identified the marks....thank you.
For better or worse it's all I got!!! I hope that when I get as old as this rifle I will be in as good of a condition as it is. Thank you for the info . I hope that you have a good day.
Pete

[algmule]

Hello

Let's see if this helps
01.jpg

Isn't it the same "military bird" that we discussed in the Reichswerke Erfurt thread?

sharps4590,
I very much like the Adolf Ströver/Stroever rifle you bought. I have him mentioned as Büchsenmacher in 1874, 1898 and 1901 when he passed.

EDIT: no it didn't help. I hereby try again
01.jpg
BC occurs on military barrels.

Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

Pete,
I'm sorry also. The PC 935 might be a serial number, but it is not a proof mark. The Eagle is not a proof mark either, it might be an identification mark, maybe for Reichswerke Erfurt( see Peters comment above). Reichswerke Erfurt was an attempt to keep workers employed at Erfurt after WW1 was lost, and they produced sporting rifles in this effort. Frankly, this rifle might be one of those. As a minimum, proof marks I would expect to see on a post 1912 rifle would be bore diameter( expressed in mm), case length( also in mm) a crown over a B, crown U, and crown G. The "crown over a Letter", doesn't appear to be a familiar font. As military arsenals didn't proof mark their rifles( that doesn't mean they didn't test them), nor did they mark them as to caliber. I suppose that if it a Reichswerke Erfurt produced rifle, they may have skipped the proof marks. Again I'm sorry I didn't help much. Maybe Axel will come in and straighten it out.
Mike

[sharps4590]

There is several similarities among all pre-WWII Mauser sproting rifles.

If your rifle is pre-WWI and mine is from between the wars the proofs probably aren't the same although some will be.

[Axel E]

Pete, your rifle is a sporterized ex-military Kar 98 AZ of WW1 vintage, most likely made by Erfurt arsenal 1917 – 18. As the German military acceptance "eagle" and the military inspector's letters under the barrel show, it retains the original military barrel in 8x57 IS, .323" bullets. The carbine 98AZ (post-WW1 renamed Kar 98a) had a tapered, not stepped barrel. Erfurt alone made about 1.7 million such carbines from 1909 to 1918. BC935 is the serial number. You have to understand the then German arms identification system: A gun was identified first by factory and year of production, marked on the receiver ring , but scrubbed away on your rifle. Numbers started with 1 each year and ran to 9999. Then a letter prefix was added. After using all letters a seond letter was added. So BC935 is not a low, but a very high serial number for one year of production. The letters and numbers under the receiver are factory internal worker's marks, unidentified today. They served identifying the persons or machines that did certain steps in production. Soon after WW1 the carbine came to civilian hands. It was scrubbed of the military markings, engraved and restocked, but escapedcivilian proof.
About the Strövers in Nordhausen: Years ago I contacted an old man of the family. They still exist as "The oldest bicycle shop in Thuringia". The old family house , shop and all files were destroyed by the bombing of Nordhausen April 4, 1945 (8800 casualties). The gunsmith Adolf Stroever founded the business about 1880. Soon he started selling and repairing bicycles and hardware too. Adolf's son Michael was trained as a gunsmith, but bicycles became the main business. Until the 1930s the family retailed guns and ammo as a side job. As usual, they bought their guns in from the guntrade. Sometimes they had them engraved with their retailer's address. Ströver/Stroever was not a famous gunmaker, but a local country gunshop at best. The Nordhausen area was occupied by the 1st US Army a week after the bombing . So several "Ströver" guns were liberated then.