Need Help with info - Imman Meffert, Suhl - 6.5x48R Sauer - Markings

[buckstix]

Hello All,

I recently acquired an Imman Meffert Single Shot Bolt Action rifle in what I think is 6.5x48R Sauer caliber. I'm unclear as to what the markings on the left side of the barrel mean.

Its stamped "30504" - "Crown/N" - "1,3 gG,B,P, / St.m.G" - "48-6,6" - Is this the Load? - Bottom of the barrel is stamped "Eagle" "Crown/B" "318."

There is also a copper plate in the stock stamped "No. 23" Any idea what year this would have been made?

Thanks for your help.







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[Axel E]

30504 is the seial number. Crown/N = nitro proof. 1,3 gGBP /St.m.G is the pre-1912 service marking of the load the rifle was proofed for, 1.3 gramm Gewehrblättchenpulver / Stahlmantelgeschoss = 20.1 gr rifle flake powder/steel jacket bullet. 313 is a gauge number for a bore/land diameter of 6.25 – 6.49 mm, as used pre-1912. 48-6,6 is a pre-1925 name of the 6.5x48R. Eagle, crown/B are part the usual proof marks.
As the rifle is marked with a pre-1912 gauge number and pre-1912 service load info, the rifle was proofed 1895 - 1912, most likely 1910-11.
No.23 is an inventory number from a collection/museum/gun room.

[buckstix]

Hello Axel E,

Thank you for the reply. I always appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. Would you know what the original Cartridge Specs would be for: bullet weight and velocity?

[Axel E]

6.5x48R load from the 1934 DWM handbook: .260", 8.2g = 126.5 gr jacketed bullet, 1.50 g = 23 gr Rottweil #5 powder (an obsolete smokeless powder, burning rate about between 3031 and 4064) for mv 657 m/s = 2155 fps, 26" barrel.

[mike ford]

buckstix,
If you want to shoot your rifle, you won't be able to find ammo at the local Mall Mart, but can load it yourself. You can make cases from common 30-30 cases. The procedures would be similar to those described in the recent WAIDMANNSHEIL for the 6.5x58R S&S, with appropriate changes. While I have less experience with 6.5x48R than 6.5x58R, I think the shorter case will be easier to make. In addition to trimming to length, you will likely have adjust the rim diameter and maybe turn or ream the neck. Like the 6.5x58R, you should "slug" the barrel to verify the required bullet diameter. It looks like a fun project to me.
Mike

[buckstix]

************** UPDATE ***************
Hello mike ford,

thanks for your reply.

Because 6.5x48R Sauer brass and quality dies are impossible to find, I'm going to re-chamber the rifle to a variation of the 6.5x48Rx30/30 cartridge. I already have brass and dies in hand, and a rental reamer coming tomorrow. See the comparison of the 2 cartridges below. I estimate that loading with a 120g bullet should get about 2500 ft/sec. This will provide muzzle energy of 1650 ft/lbs. That should provide fairly flat shooting out to 200 yards with only a 4" variation over that entire range. At 200 yards it still retains about 1200 ft/lbs energy. This will be a fun gun for small to mid-size game here in Wisconsin, - from groundhogs to whitetail deer.
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[Axel E]

buckstix, rechambering such an old rifle will ruin a lot of collector value. Besides, these simplyfied Mauser M71 actions have only one "locking lug" far behind the breech, the root of the bolt handle/rear end of bolt guide rib. They don't take high pressure well. Because of the one-sided lockup they will throw shots sideways. At least, the lockup will wear fast, increasing headspace.
You will need non-standard reloading dies anyhow and you will have to form your own cases from .30-30 or .25-35. CH4D lists the 6.5x48R Sauer among their offerings:
http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/caliber-list?page=6

[sharps4590]

Alter the ammo, not the rifle.

[Diz]

The references I have for the 6.5x48R list the Pmax pressure as 2,000 bar or just a bit above 29,000 psi. At these pressure limits it's not worth hot-rodding in my own opinion. Everything Axel comments on regrading the lock up and value is also true and while this is your gun to do with as you wish, I believe that Sharps is on the mark with his comment. It isn't that hard to make this ammo as Mike said and the rifle keeps its collectors value. Regards, Diz

[buckstix]

Hello Axel E,

Thanks so much for your reply.

I'm not concerned about collector "value" of the rifle. In my humble opinion, owning a rifle that you can't shoot has no value at all; its worthless.

I've already tried 2 sets of 6.5x48R reloading dies, RCBS and C4, and also 4-step "forming" dies. I have had nothing but grief with this caliber.

As to making 6.5x48R brass by modifying 30-30 cases, it sounds easy, but its not! Only those that have tried it will know that its a real big hassle to modify cases, which includes; careful annealing of all but the head of the case, resizing with 4 forming dies, then a full length sizing die, then back-turning the rim in order to thin it, and then reducing the rim dia., and then neck-turning the case mouth in order to thin it, and then machining down the head dia., and trimming the overall length, and then another final annealing. I did this with 5 cases and it more than 5 hours. And, after all this, case life was only about 2 - 3 reloads before they split, and I had to start over again.

So, after due consideration, I've come to the final decision to alter the rifle's caliber. I've been a wild-catter since the early 70's and have developed several cartridges over the years, including the 6.5x48Rx30/30.

I fully understand the limitations of the M71 action and its bolt handle lock-up. However, in my opinion, even at a slightly higher pressure than the original loading, there will be less "rearward thrust" against the bolt handle lock-up from the new 6.5x48Rx30/30 cartridge because it has less body taper, than the severely tapered original 6.5x48R Sauer cartridge. Never-the-less, I will tread lightly when working up a load.

As to forming cases for the new 6.5x48Rx30/30 cartridge, its very easily done. One stroke into a 7x30 Waters sizing die, and a second stroke into my custom 6.5x48Rx30/30 sizing die. Finally, trim to length and its done. I already have the custom 6.5x48Rx30/30 resizing die., and have made up 20 cases in preparation to re-chambering. It only took 10 minutes.

I'll be reporting shooting results with the new cartridge soon.

[buckstix]

As to comments by Diz,

Thank for your reply,

But I don't "hot-rod".

[mike ford]

buckstix,
I agree that the rifle should not be rechambered, but I understand it is your rifle and can do with it, what you will. I suggest you go back to Axel's post , read what he said about bullet diameter, and don't let your quest for convenience let you use normal 6.5 bullets. The only saving grace to your plan is your rifle is a bolt gun and not a kipplauf. Note the difference in diameters at the area of the shoulder of your wildcat. If you rechambered a kipplauf( KLB, BF, BBF, Drilling) you would likely make barrel thickness way too thin at the shoulder. The two German guns of mine that give the most trouble at the ones someone relined , and in the other case rebored to "American wildcats". If after fireforming and annealing, cases are good for 2 uses, the likely cause over sizing or setting the shoulders back. This would apply to any rimmed cartridge, including your wildcat. I am a wildcatter, myself, and know your cartridge would be very good in an appropriate rifle.
Mike

[Diz]

Buckstix, best of luck with your rifle. Diz

[buckstix]

Hello mike ford,

Thanks for the reply.

Its the inconsistancy of the reloading dies that prevents proper resizing, and that's what leads to case failure. I've already spent well over $400 on dies, and I'm finished with that.

As to barrel thickness, in this case, its not an issue, and bore has been measured for groove diameter, which matches the 120g Sierra 6.5 bullet diameter exactly.

I'm leaving to pick-up the chamber reamer shortly, and I'll report back with results when I'm finished with the new chamber. I'll even post a target when I get back from the range later today.

[mike ford]

Great,
Mike