1927 Hunting Rifle Help

[algmule]

Hello

John.
thank you very much for your effort. As for the 7,9 on the barrel ring I can't imagine it denoting anything else than a bore measurement. As for the wooden plug with the un-matching grains, Triebel (if him) most certainly did not put it in the stock no matter how poor or hungry he may have been in 1927. Most of the Geha stocks have two medallions - one on each side of the stock - but I´ve come across one Geha here in Sweden with only one stock medallion (on the left side!) and Mr. Greenbaum knew of a Hard Hit Heart conversion with one stock medallion. As sharps 4590 suggested, a fired case would probably tell if it´s an 8x57, and if not, a chamber cast will. Please measure the receiver ring.

Axel.
brilliant, that´s exactly the kind of information I was looking for. July 31, 1921 was almost like a religious moment. Mid 1921 has been my point of reference for Danzig for a long time and now I have an exact date. In 1921 I believe there was neither sporter rifle nor shotgun conversion manufacturing at Erfurt and I believe chapmen gave the date in another thread for when rifle production in Amberg stopped. Mid 1921 is/was my date for when the ban on 8x57IS was implemented but that´s a really vague source. I don´t know if mid 1921 is recent enough for the date May 1923.

Off-topic: would anyone know the bullet weight for a military 8x57 cartridge, if so, please let me know.

If anyone is wondering what happened to the 1927 Wild und Hund issues, I´m still sipping coffee.

Also: mike ford beat me to the bore measurement due to the forum continually keeps logging me out.

EDIT: John, I´m still puzzled by the lack of serial numbering on the barrel and the receiver. Triebel (if him) perhaps used parts from two military rifles when "manufacturing" one sporter rifle (not likely, see the following), or someone may have put together one sporter rifle from another sporter rifle and military rifle parts in more recent times and then reinvented the sporterizing of stocks, in this case a Geha stock. By the way, there´s nothing wrong with your rifle. I very much like it although I´m uncertain about the stock being an original and a little less uncertain that it´s a Geha stock.

Kind regards
Peter

[JohnInPa]

Mike, would these work?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/76...king-pack-of-4

[JohnInPa]

I have no idea what we are looking for, but here is a casing from one of the 50ish rounds we fired yesterday. Does this help solve the 8x60mm vs 8x57 debate?

This is 8x57IS

20170529_191912.jpg

[JohnInPa]

EDIT: John, I´m still puzzled by the lack of serial numbering on the barrel and the receiver. Triebel (if him) perhaps used parts from two military rifles when "manufacturing" one sporter rifle (not likely, see the following), or someone may have put together one sporter rifle from another sporter rifle and military rifle parts in more recent times and then reinvented the sporterizing of stocks, in this case a Geha stock. By the way, there´s nothing wrong with your rifle. I very much like it although I´m uncertain about the stock being an original and a little less uncertain that it´s a Geha stock.

Peter:

Mike mentioned a few pages back that the barrel and the chamber do not look like they are the same serial number. The barrel almost looks brand new while the receiver does not. I suspect that the bolt, the receiver, and the barrel are all differing serial numbers.

Thanks,
John

[Axel E]

Off-topic: would anyone know the bullet weight for a military 8x57 cartridge, if so, please let me know.

Patrone 88, called 8x57I from 1940 on: round nose fmj, 8.1 mm = .319" diameter, 14.7 g = 227 gr

WW1 standard S-Patrone, 8x57IS: pointed fmj, 8.22 mm = .323", 9.8 g = 151 gr

sS – Patrone, used for machine guns only in WW1, standard in WW2: pointed fmj boattail, 8.22 mm = .323", 12.8 g = 197 gr

88 = year of introduction
S = Spitzgeschoss = pointed bullet
sS = schweres Spitzgeschoss = heavy pointed bullet

[algmule]

Hello

John,
the barrel and the receiver carry the same trademark (Triebel?) so I believe it´s unlikely - but not impossible - that they once were different rifles. The barrel and the bolthandle have civilian proofs.

I´ll let sharps4590 or/and mike ford comment the case.

Axel,
again, thank you

I believe we need a military Mauser collector/expert look in the barrel channels of a couple of (Erfurt) Gewehr 98 stocks/Karabinen 98 stocks. I once contemplated joining a Mauser forum but quickly realized that it would give the same result as if googling Shakespeare without specifying. I did however begin reading on one forum but all it gave me was a headache. Neither German nor English is native to me.

Kind regards
Peter

[JohnInPa]

Peter:

I am quite distant from being an expert on this subject. The distance being measurable in parsecs. However I have noticed that all of the shotgun conversions I have researched keep the entire finger grip on the stock intact. Mine only has the first 1/3 or so. I like the Geha idea, but I am not too sure.

If you haven't seen this already give it a read. Good history on shotgun conversions.......
http://readingbreak.com/features/johng/1/geha.htm

[mike ford]

JohnInPa,
The "Midway" screws will work fine, they are made as replacements for the military screws. The photo of the fired case seems to support your belief that the rifle is, indeed, chambered for 8x57IS. The fact that both the action and barrel carry the Triebel(?) mark does not show they were original to each other; it only means that Triebel's shop bebarreled it and submitted it for civilian proof.
Peter,
I believe "Mauser Experts"( either Military or Civilian) would have little interest in this rifle. It would be mainly of interest to hunters, or maybe Triebel collectors, if the mark can be confirmed.
Mike

[JohnInPa]

Thanks Mike, the screws were just ordered!

John

[Kiwi_bloke]

My suggestion, put a small mark on one groove, (the high part of the slug), with a black felt tip pen, then look for the opposite high part of the slug and measure from high part to high. Repeat, low part to low. That should give you the 2 numbers you need. With an even number of lands/grooves, it should not be all that hard but just make sure the vernier hasn't slipped down to measure a land and a groove.

[Diz]

JohninPa,

I just had a chance to look at your picture of the fired cartridge and notice the bright ring at the junction of the web and body. I don't know what they looked like prior and I am just making a guess but that ring could indicate an incipient case head separation. Generally, it is caused by excessive head space. Since there seems to still be some question about the chamber, you may have this result from firing an 8x57 in an 8x60 chamber. I could be completely off the mark but I would suggest you get a thin piece of wire and bend it in an "L" that will fit into the mouth of the case and drag the point along the inside of the case starting from the base. If it hooks where the ring shows that indicates a partial separation and something is amiss. Again, there could be many reasons for that ring but this might be the most important and worth a test.

Thanks, Diz

[JohnInPa]

Diz, thank you for the heads-up. Fortunately I still have about 10 rounds left from the box that the spent cartridge came from. About half of the unused cartridges show that strange ring. It's really cheap ammo ($12 for a box of 20), so I am guessing that it's an issue with the manufacturing process. I will give the wire trick a try though.

John

[Diz]

John, it's good to know that they show the ring right from the box and that really reduces the possibility of something being wrong with the gun. Best of luck with it for the future. Thanks, Diz