"Leaf" proof on J.P. Sauer?

[jillandsam303]

Just got another drilling and on several places there is this "Leaf" to the right on the shot of the action. Any ideas?

Also some pix of misc marks.

There is also no proof date to be found, but it's got 70mm bores so it must be fairly new.

Thanks

Sam

[mike ford]

jillandsam303,
The "leaf" you mention is the Eckernfoerde (Kiel) proofhouse mark. The pre-war Sauers were made in Suhl, but when the Soviets took over, the name was sold and post-war Sauers were then made in Eckernfoerde ( in northern West Germany). While different than the pre-war Sauers, they are good workmenlike modern guns, therefore standard with 70mm chambers. The proofmarks would be in the form of a Bundesadler with an appropriate letter underneath.
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Mike, thanks for the fast and informative info. So now, even though I can't find a proof date, I know this J.P. Sauer Model 3000 is post 1945 made in Kiel. Interestingly, one Bundesadler mark has an "M" and the other an "N". FYI, I had my gunsmith Michael Merker refinish the Bischoff scope and stock. As usual, he did a great job.P1120669.jpgScope before and after.jpg

[mike ford]

jillandsam303,
The Eckernfoerde proofhouse mark started in 1952,so the drilling is post 1952. The mark with the "M" is blackpowder provisional proof of shotgun barrels, also for rifle barrels, if destined for multi-barreled arms. The mark with the "N" is Definitive Nitro ( now normal) proof. I'm surprised that it is not dated, somewhere.
Mike

[Axel E]

The proof date may be encoded as letters. If so, A represents a 0, B = 1, C=2 and so on, until K = 9. I or J are the same, 8.

[jillandsam303]

Thanks Axel, I'll check to see if I can find some letters.

Sam

[Kiwi_bloke]

That is the earlier version of the Sauer Drilling with the sides of the receiver (where the stag is) stepped, (they're called "little cheeks" in German) The 3000 has straight-sided receiver sides. The first of the post-war Sauer Drillings can be part dated if they have no separate extractor for the rifle cartridge. Also later ones didn't have the same 3-legged symbol for the Bochumer Verein special barrel steel, (Bochumer is the name of the steel makers). I'd say, looking at the scope with the screw to lock the adjustment, it might be around 1960 or so. The oak leaf is post war Eckernforde/Kiel proof house, but the design is essentially pre-war - "old school" design. The best of tradition. The straight comb stock is not a hog-back design and that sort of dates it too. But if you're using the shotgun, some would argue it is the better stock to have. Your stockmaker has talent BTW!

[jillandsam303]

Sauer 3000 Lux

That is the earlier version of the Sauer Drilling with the sides of the receiver (where the stag is) stepped, (they're called "little cheeks" in German) The 3000 has straight-sided receiver sides. The first of the post-war Sauer Drillings can be part dated if they have no separate extractor for the rifle cartridge. Also later ones didn't have the same 3-legged symbol for the Bochumer Verein special barrel steel, (Bochumer is the name of the steel makers). I'd say, looking at the scope with the screw to lock the adjustment, it might be around 1960 or so. The oak leaf is post war Eckernforde/Kiel proof house, but the design is essentially pre-war - "old school" design. The best of tradition. The straight comb stock is not a hog-back design and that sort of dates it too. But if you're using the shotgun, some would argue it is the better stock to have. Your stockmaker has talent BTW!

Kiwi, thanks for the info. When I look at the ad for the 3000 lux, it looks like the receiver has "little cheeks" doesn't it? If mine isn't a 3000 lux, do you have any idea of what the model number would have been?

Sam

[jillandsam303]

Guys, I scoured the water table and couldn't find a proof date, other than one "7". So since it was made in Eckenrode, I guess I'll have to assume it was made between 1952 and 1968.P1120845.jpg. I sure like the engraving though.P1120675.jpg

[Axel E]

So since it was made in Eckenrode, I guess I'll have to assume it was made between 1952 and 1968

We may cut four years from this 1952 – 1968 time span. The engraving and the horn/plastic trigger guard identify your drilling as a model 3000 LUX. This model, successor of the model S 53, was made by S&S, Eckernförde, from 1956 on.

[mike ford]

jillandsam303,
I wouldn't expect the date to be on the water table, rather, I would expect it on the barrels. On the other hand, I wouldn't be too surprised to see an exception to the general rule.
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Axel, thanks for helping hone in on the proof date. No idea what happened to the proof date. I've looked everywhere. Thanks to Mike too.

[Axel E]

Without a proof date, we may narrow down the date span of your drilling by archeological means. The scopes like your Bischoff, Brunswik, one, essentially copies of the Hensoldt "Dural – Dialyt" type, went out of fashion in the early 1960s. Noone would have mounted such an "outdated", not state of the art scope in the 1960s on a quality gun. At the same time,1960s, hump – backed stocks became fashionable. IMHO your drilling may be dated to the late 1950s.

[jillandsam303]

Axel, thanks for the detective work! Would these lug marks help identify the decade?P1120824.jpg Or maybe the split extractors? P1120664.jpg

[Axel E]

Would these lug marks help identify the decade?

No, these are factory internal worker's marks.
The "split" extractor that lifts the rifle case higher to ease reloading merely identifies it as one of the 3000 series, here a 3000 LUX.
As I stated above, this drilling was made between 1956 (introduction of the 3000 series) and about 1960. That 7 stands where I would expect a proof date. So 1957 may be the year it was made.