O Geyger 7x64 Rifle

[morganp10]

Hello again GGCA Forum!

I recently posted about a 7x57 RwE rifle and got much good feedback, I thought I'd try again with this one: an O(tto?) Geyger 7x64 rifle:

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(More pictures to follow.)

Again, what I think I know:
- Rifle believed to be 1920’s vintage by comparison to others.
- Scope believed to be 4x26 and late 1930's (based on serial number and this post: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=711308)

What I would like to know:
- Any information about narrowing the date of manufacture better.
- How to adjust the scope up/down, left/right (other than just experimenting).
- How to remove the stock: one of the two main bolts is closely covered by the trigger guard not allowing for screw driver access (does this require a special tool?). (See picture below.)
- Any other pertinent information people want to volunteer.

Thanks in advance!

Morgan2017-04-17 16.10.42.jpg
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[mike ford]

morganp10,
The attachments did not open up, could you try again? First of all this is a fine rifle, from a well known shop. It is also chambered for a world class cartridge, which, like the 30-06, is a hundred year old design that is as relevant today as when it was "born". I am impressed by the condition, which appears to be original. It has been fitted with a side safety like a traditional drilling, and is often referred to as a "stalking" safety, especially when found on a bolt action rifle. To provide the best information, it will be necessary that you provide photos of the proof marks, found under the barrel, ahead of the receiver ring. I would also be interested to see if there are any numbers under the action or on the back of the magazine box; and if the set triggers are part of the trigger guard assy., or if a separate unit pinned to it. I am tempted to say the scope has no windage adjustment; but there is something a little unusual at the top of the turret, and the rear ring doesn't have adjustment screws. I would feel better if Axel addresses the scope, as I am not familiar with that particular one. If it does not have internal adjustment, it will be necessary to "drift" the front plate in it's dovetail. If this is necessary, it would be drifted opposite to the way you want the bullet to go.
Mike

[morganp10]

Thanks Mike! I'm reposting the set of pictures here that are only showing up as attachments above:

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This last photo (above) shows the issue I'm facing to remove the magazine box from the receiver and disassembling the rifle: one of the two main bolts is closely covered by the back part of the trigger guard. Removing the screw holding the back of the trigger guard doesn't provide much additional access, perhaps another 1/4" at most, and I don't want to bend/break the trigger guard in the process of attempting to remove the bolt.

Any input about how this is done (e.g., specialty tool?) would be greatly appreciated so I can break the gun down and get to see/clean it throughout.

Thanks!

Morgan

[morganp10]

Before taking the gun apart, there is "5890" stamped or etched into the top of the receiver (see above) and "4622" and crown/B and crown/U on the top of the bolt handle (below).

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[Nathaniel Myers]

Using a FINE screw driver, remove the rear screw of the trigger guard. Then carefully rotate the trigger guard unscrewing it from the bottom metal. You may want to open the floor plate to give additional clearance.

This will give you access to the rear screw of the bottom metal.

I can take pictures if you would like.

I would also be interested in seeing the markings under the action and barrel. I have a 7x64 that was build just prior to WWII that is VERY similar to yours. It was retailed at Waffen - Honold, but may have been made by the same maker, or collection of makers.

Inked2017-04-29 13.11.22_LI.jpg

The circled portion is threaded like a bolt, and the whole shotgun trigger guard will unscrew.

[Axel E]

As Nathaniel has already addressed your disassembly problem, I am waiting for a photo of all marks and numbers under the barrel too.
Right now, Ican tell about the scope. These steel tubed Zeiss "Zielvier" (= aim 4) scopes are in high demand here in Germany, as they are among the best 4x scopes ever made, far superior to any Weaver, Redfield , Unertl or Leupold 4x. The "wing nut" on top of the turret is for adjusting focus to your eyesight. The big wheel below is for elevation adjustment. After loosening the small locking thumb screw (it is captive, so don't try to remove it entirely) turning the wheel clockwise makes the rifle shooting up, couterclockwise down. Very small amounts of turning will make the impact move a lot, so remember the position of the wheel before starting to turn. This will give a good guess about the angle of turning needed for an amount of impact change. Windage adjustment is to be done by the mount. Unfortunately your mount, like many of the interwar ones, lacks a screw adjustment. So windage adjustment must be dome by tapping the front base plate over in it's dovetail. It must be pushed in the opposite direction of the required impact. Again very tiny amounts of movement achieve a lot.
Otherwise, the rifle seems to be a fine example of a Geyger. That ridge on the pistol grip is a Geyger house style "trademark".

[morganp10]

Great input, gents, thanks! Nathaniel, that info was just what I needed and have been able to disassemble the gun...it never occurred to me that the front of the guard was threaded in, it looked brazed, etc. Anyway, disassembly revealed much:

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[algmule]

Hello

Can´t really say much about your rifle more than I like it.

Here´s the steel for the barrel three years before your rifle passed through the facility in Suhl. Krupp also had three further steel products but they were all with the three rings in 1934. In 1927, however, only two of the others were marketed as three-ring steel.

1934.jpg

Also: really sorry for my English. Long day.

Kind regards
Peter

[morganp10]

This rifle appears to be consistently (serial) numbered 4622 on barrel, bolt, receiver, stock, and trigger guard. I found no markings of any kind on the magazine box although it appears original/same vintage as the rest of the gun, with the exception of what appears to be a few replacement pieces in the trigger assembly.

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I couldn't find, through a small amount of searching, what crown/E means, but I'm thinking someone here knows.

RE: the "1237" stamping on the back end of the barrel, is that month and year (total guess) or something else?

And the stamp "G" on the bottom of what I think someone called the receiver ring, is that significant beyond being a mark made during manufacture?

And the "5890" etched/engraved on the top of the receiver, I would have at first thought that was a serial number, but it differs from 4622, which I think is probably the serial number. So what is 5890?

Thanks again, Morgan

[algmule]

Hello

Mark for Express rifle barrels.

Go here and let the page load, then scroll down. http://http://www.germanhuntingguns....dentification/

Kind regards
Peter

[mike ford]

morganp10,
As peter mentioned, the crown E is an "Express" proof, which was a slightly higher pressure proof. The rifle was built in Suhl, for marketing by Geyger, and possibly stocking/finishing by them first. The 1237, means the rifle was proofed during December 1937, by the Suhl Proofhouse. I was interested to see if there was a number on the back of the magazine box, or on the flat behind the recoil lug, or if the settriggers were integral to the trigger guard assy., or if they were a separate unit pinned in. These would be signs that the action was a commercial, Oberndorf one instead of a reworked military surplus one. It lacks most of the Oberndorf signs so you would think it is ex military. It does have 4622, behind the recoil lug, as well as the barrel, bolt, stock, and trigger guard. I believe this is the maker's serial number; while the 5890 is Geyger's serial number. As always, I can be wrong.
Mike

[morganp10]

Really useful and informative feedback. Thank you all, gentlemen!

[Nathaniel Myers]

Axel, et. all,

The script m that is on the trigger guard, receiver, and barrel flat, are those of any note to you? Recognize them as anything?

I have them on another barreled action, but have never been able to trace any real evidence as to what they are or were from.

[Axel E]

I take that m as the individual worker's mark of the man who fitted and assembled the parts. Maybe an individual employee of a larger shop or even an independent outworker? These small marks are most often unintelligible now. These marks were registered nowhere. They were important to the contemporary trade only, to trace back a complaint to the man who made the blunder.

[algmule]

Hello

The following may not fall under “Any other pertinent information” but I’m posting anyway. Also, the information that follows is somewhat earlier than the topic of the thread but at least concerns the company O. Geyger & Co.

O. Geyger & Co
Began on 1. July 1895 in Französischerstraße 22/23 by Kaufmann Oscar Geyger. A second source gives 2. July as date for commencement.

Early 1900, probably in February: The company is dissolved by mutual(!?) agreement. The merchant Oscar Geyger in Berlin continues the trading business unchanged (my translation). It does not tell who else was involved.

In 1906 - Now: Open trading company and as shareholders: Rudolf Kropf, Kaufmann and Paul Steuer, Büchsenmacher, both from Berlin. The company began on 30 January 1906 (again my translation).

1907-1909. Situated in Taubenstraße. May have been there earlier but I only have sources for 1907 and 1909.

1924, in April: Paul Zytkowski, merchant, Berlin, has entered the company as a personally liable partner (my translation). I have no address for 1924.

Before Oscar Geyger set up his own business he was with the establishment N. v Dreyse. I have him from 4. October 1889 onwards as: Reference to the company or company register: No. 257 of the single company register, the name of authorized officer (Google Translate gives chief clerk for “des Procuristen”): the merchant Oscar Geyger in Berlin.

In January 1891 Oscar Geyger and a Louis Wegner (Berlin) are given as Die Procuren des Louis Wegner und des Oscar Geyger für die erstgenannte Gesellschaft sind erloschen und ist deren Löschung . . .

and on 25. January 1891 – Die Procura given to the merchant Oskar Geyger in Berlin for V. v Dreyse in Sömmerda and Berlin. 2 (214) of the Procurenregister has been quenched/closed today (translation is me and Google translate). Yes, it does say V. v Dreyse and again yes, it’s a k in his name this time.

What happened to the company O. Geyger and to Oscar Geyger himself before 1889 and after 1924 I don’t know. Surely something must have happened in the gap between 1906 and 1924 too. Feel free to add what you know.

Kind regards
Peter