Val Kern Drilling

[RR01]

Hi Guys, I am a new member. I have inherited ( twenty years ago ) a Val Kern drilling. I am trying to identify it's date and proof marks. I have looked at many sites, forum posts and auctions sales to try and find a similar gun. I only saw one or two references to Kern's guns .One being an Ask Axel article from 2013.

If anyone can help clarify info on this gun it would be appreciated. More photos to follow.

[RR01]

More Photos.IMG_2225.JPGIMG_2161.JPGIMG_2162.JPG

[RR01]

Last photoIMG_2234.jpg

[mike ford]

RR01,
Your interesting drilling was proofed, and likely made for Val Kern to market, in Zella- Mehlis in July of 1908( 7,08), with ledger # 593 ( if I read the numbers correctly). The 118,35 is the bore( not groove or bullet) diameter. This number is found on some 9.3 or 9 mm Nominal caliber rifles, the most common being one of the 9.3x72Rs. Most often, I find this bore diameter( expressed in gauge measurement) corresponds to a groove diameter of .357-.359", making bullets ( not cartridges) pretty easy to find. The shotgun barrels are chambered for the 65mm 16 gauge shells, which are shorter than the current standard 2 3/4"( 70mm) shells. The crown S means the barrel was proofed for shot. The crown G on the rifle barrel means it was proofed for a single projectile (bullet). I didn't see a crown W on the right hand shot barrel, if there is one on the left hand one, it means that barrel is choked; but does not show the amount of constriction. The crown U is the mark for a "view" proof, which is a close inspection, including verification of dimensions. The numbers on the barrels indicate the service load, using the nitro powder used in the proof, here it is Schultze shotgun powder. The crowned eagle indicates provisional proof, and the one over the crown U, is for the definitive proof. The 16, not in a circle is the bore diameter ahead of the chamber. The system is unusual, Axel may address it. The safety is very uncommon, but is seen from time to time. Instead of blocking the sears or hammers, it actually blocks the firing pins from striking the primers, by moving over the holes through which the firing pins protrude. Also interesting, is that the stock magazine has a place for one shotgun shell( slug?).
Mike

[RR01]

Mike,

Thanks for the reply. Very interesting as I didn't know much about it. I actually used to think the V Kern engraving was the owner not the gunsmith. I am curious what you meant by it may have been made for V Kern as opposed to he made it.

Another question, how or can you clean / polish the engravings? I wouldn't want to harm them but they are a bit dull.

Again, thx for the info and if anyone has any more info it would be greatly appreciated.

[sharps4590]

Wipe it down with a cloth and leave it alone. Clean and polish it and you take off all that valuable patina. Same with the rest of the drilling. That stuff doesn't get there overnight.

[mike ford]

RR01,
Most of the local dealers bought their products from someone in Suhl, or Zella-Mehlis. If they were a "Dealer", they would buy them completed. If a gunsmith, they might buy then "in the white" and finish them for the customer. Sometimes they would buy "roelinge"(sp?) or blank parts and fit/finish them for the customer. A hundred years later, it is hard to tell which category it fell into. You often see guns advertised as "Guild Guns". They are, however guns "made for the trade", which just hadn't had the dealer's name placed onto it. If it were mine, I would call it "my Val Kern" drilling.
Mike

[RR01]

Sharps4590 and Mike,

Thx again. Very helpful. Your knowledge is awesome but I am sure your studied a long time and earned it !

[Nathaniel Myers]

Mike's a spring chicken, and I heard rumor that sharps4590 is the same.



Both are very knowledgeable, well studied, and well regarded.

I really like the unique safety features, hopefully Axel chimes in with HIS wealth of knowledge. First I have seen a cartridge trap include for a shot shell.

[Axel E]

Yes, I once wrote about such a "Valentin Kern, Nürnberg" drilling in Waidmannsheil! #50, 2013. But at that time I did not know yet the real maker of these outdated, 1860s design, striker lock drillings. Meanwhile I identified the EB (back to back) mark of the real maker: These drillings were made for sale by Kern by the Emil Barthelmes "factory", Meininger Str. 11, Zella – Mehlis, founded 1854, run by Hubertus Barthelmes (son?) up to 1913, then by a Max Metzner.
About the gauge numbers again: They don't show the groove diameter of a barrel, but the bore/ land one. The numbers stamped on the rifle barrels by the proofhouse were established by using cylindrical plugs. The gauge numbers given in the German 1892 proof tables appear to be rather queer, as gauge number 118.35 is given as 8.64 mm, the next larger number 108.49 as 8.89 mm. Apparently these gauge numbers were taken over from British tables. When you convert the metric diameters to inches, number 118.35 is .340", while 108.49 is .350". So a .340" plug passed the bore of your barrel, while a .350" one did not. 9.3x72R barrels were designed for use with black powder and lead bullets, with deep grooves. To find the groove diameter of your barrel, you have to slug your bore. Remember, nothing was standardized before the 1920s.

[Axel E]

BTW, don't try to "polish up" the engraving! To my eyes, it is in perfect shape for a German gun this old. It was never meant to be bright and shiny! Originally, it was case hardened to a dull, grey color. Any polishing will ruin it. I have seen too many guns ruined by American hobbyists with actions polished bright and a high gloss laquer finish applied to an oversanded stock.