C.a.fischer & sohn drillings

[JERRY]

I'm looking for information on a 16gauge and 8mm drilling made by C.A. FISCHER & SOHN. i can send pictures if needed. but will take me a day or two to do it. some of the stampings under the barrels consist of a S under a crown, a W under a crown an EAGLE, the numbers 11835 on the rifle barrel, a deer or stag head inside a circle, and 16 inside a circle on both shotgun barrels. there are other stampings but not quite sure what they are. the story i was told is this drilling came from A. Hitler's armory at the end of W.W.2. there is a significant amount of silver on the trigger, side plates, buttstock, and trigger guard. it even has a ammo holder made into the buttstock for the rifle ammo. any information will be greatly appreciated...

[mike ford]

Jerry,
The C.A.Fischer is likely a dealer, but could be an independent gunsmith that finished purchased actions/barrels. There is no doubt the drilling is chambered for 16ga 65mm (2 9 /16") whereas the current standard is 70mm (2 3/4").However, it is not marked as being an 8mm drilling. The 118,35 mark is the caliber of the barrel, expressed as a ga. measurement. This mark is often found on guns chambered for one of the 9.3x72Rs, but also on other 9.3s such as 9.3x48/58/80/82R, or maybe 9x58 1/2R Sauer. The way to verify the chamber is with a chamber cast. The "S" indicates it was proofed for shot, the "W" indicates the barrel is choked. The rifle caliber being shown as ga. indicates the drilling was made after the 1891 proof law came into effect in early 1893, and before the 1911 inprovements to it were implemented in 1912. It is not likely that the drilling has any association with Adolf Hitler, other than he was the leader of the country. While some of his staff were known to be hunters/gun collectors, Hitler was not known for this. Also the drilling is too early to have been made to present to him to curry favor. He didn't come into power until 1933.

[JERRY]

Mike, thank you for this info. at this time i am waiting for my son to upload some pictures we took last nite hopefully they will turn out well enough to read all of the markings. there are several more stampings besides the ones i mention earlier. the actuall owner of the rifle is a 92 year old army veteran. who was sent to Hitlers chateau in Austria. He said the drilling was among several rifles and shotguns in what he discribs as a small armoury, the drilling was also in a canvas and leather case fitted for it. i am waiting for the chance to observe and take notes on it. i will post the photos as soon as i get them sent to me.

[Axel E]

C.A. Fischer & Sohn was a family company of gunsmithes and retailers at Untertrave 109, Lübeck, up in northern Germany. Founded in 1828 they existed at least up to 1925. At some time they called themselves "Suppliers to the Royal Swedish Court". AFAIK Hitler abhorred hunting, and no "chateau in Austria" ever occupied by Hitler is known. So I dismiss the story as an old soldier's tale. Probably he "liberated" it from the collection of a well-to-do man from northern Germany who could afford a hunting area with a lodge in Ausria, very fashionable at that time. I agree with Mike: The drilling was made pre-1911, when Hitler was still a young, unemployed wannabe artist living in Vienna asylums.

[JERRY]

Axel, thanks for the information. you just saved me a lot of time and probably imbarrassment trying to get more information from the gentleman that owns it. i was about to make an appointment and try to squeeze as much information from him as possible. as he does now have alzhiemers, and some dementia. altho his story has been told to his kids and step kids for more than 60 years. i know that doesn't make it true. as you say a soilder's tale. i have been trying to establish some if any truth in his where abouts during the war. by looking into the U.S. Army records. seems there were a lot of men with the same name... (but still looking) i always try to give the benefit of doubt especially to Veterans. (and yes i do know that more time than not anything of value was liberated if it could be carried off). when i recieve the photos of the drilling with ALL stampings would you be able to establish a closer time frame of build? and cartridge?

[Axel E]

when i recieve the photos of the drilling with ALL stampings would you be able to establish a closer time frame of build? and cartridge?

perhaps yes, maybe no. but there may be marks that point to the real Suhl or Zella-Mehlis maker.

[JERRY]

Axel, i am having trouble downloading the pictures on here for you. i will post them asap. just gotta figure out how to do it... thanks for being patient.... jj

[JERRY]

Axel, or Mike, do either of you have an email address i can send the pictures too. i have been trying to post them here but for the life of me i have no idea how to do so. HELP.....

[mike ford]

Jerry,
Send them to Raimey at ellenbrs@bellsouth.net.
Mike

[JERRY]

ok, thanks mike, i have finally been able to send Raimey the pictures my son and i took. i hope they turned out ok. sorry it took so long. but we had an accident in the home. a $7.00 toilet part damaged $10,000. worth of flooring, furniture, baseboard, and sheetrock. thank goodness it was just an overflow of clean water and not the sewer line. we are still in the process of replacing flooring.

[ellenbr]

C.A. Fischer & Söhne Roux Drilling









All of the other images were so out of focus that little could be gained from the image. Looks to be Zella-Mehlis proofed with an Express proof at the bottom. So either describe the marks from the forward barrel lug up, which would be an Express proof, then a ledger number for the month, then a number sequence separated by a dot for the date code, etc. or try to grab a better image. Also an other initials or stamps near the forend hanger would be of interest. There are 2 initials forward of the Eagle Crown over G on the lower tube but are difficult to read. As Axel stated C.A. Fischer hung out his gunmaking shingle in 1828 and by the mid 1840s he still advertised solely then by the mid 1860s son was added. By the time this Roux drieläufer was source from the craftsmen at Zella-Mehlis, I wonder if any Fischers were still owners.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

[JERRY]

Raimey, thanks, you did a great job on the pictures that were posted, i truly didnt think any of them were even close to being good. i will get my daughter to retake pictures of all the markings. she seems to have a better eye than me, or my son. i just have a hard time roping her with her going to school to be a nurse, and working. lol... but i will put a discription of the markings, along with the pictures. even if i have to draw them by hand. my curiosity is killing me about this firearm, i'm still working on the ligitimacy of the story behind it as well. thanks again...jj

[mike ford]

Jerry,
Don't be too hard on the old man that brought the drilling back. Sometimes old soldiers tell war stories, fully believing they are true. He could have been told it was Hitler's villa, and it could have very well belonged to some other "Hitler". Thank him for his service to the country, and for saving a fine old drilling.
Mike

[JERRY]

Mike, LOL... please dont get me wrong. i truly enjoy listening to these guys. i know several and sometimes when they talk to each other one of them will jar loose other memories. and yep i do know these guys are told by their (superiors) all sorts of things just to get them to do stuff. i work for the city of memphis, and they tell us anything just to get us to do their bidding. (oops) i wasn't suppose to say that. our mayor says we dont have a first admendment right to speak freely about our city government. anywho. i have a strong curiosity and i gotta find out where this drilling came from. hopefully my daughter will send me the new pictures later today, so i can get them out. thanks for all of ya'lls help. this is truly a great forum.