Help with a drilling I am considering

[Acera]

Hello All,

Got an opportunity to purchase a drilling, and I don't have a clue if it is a good deal or not.


Got some basic information from the seller.

Don't know a lot about it, am told it's German and made in Suhl.

16 gauge shotgun barrels.

32 caliber rifle barrel or possibly 8.7 mm.

Pre-1900

The numbers under the front stock and barrels: 1797

They said they have looked and not found anything else.

I wish I could have gotten more, but limited time and they did not know what it is. The folks selling it are doing so for a widow.

Pretty sure the recoil pad is aftermarket and the finish looked like it came from a can recently, too glossy and new looking. I have the number of the gentleman selling it on the widows behalf and I could call with some more specifics.

Pulling down the lever under the trigger guard opens the action. It is very tight and lock up feels good.

They want $3,000 for the gun.

Any advice is appreciated as always.

[fuhrmann]

Acera,

My opinion is to leave this gun.
It will not be a good deal.
Never worth 3000 USD.

fuhrmann

[Nathaniel Myers]

Where are you located?

Drillings are uncommon, but if you want one, they are simply not RARE. Without further information it is impossible to access a reasonable value.

With what I do know and see from your post, $1250-$1500 would be a more reasonable selling price.

In the future, ask the sellers permission, then remove the front handguard and look at the bottom of the barrels for markings. The bore condition is very important to me as I like to shoot the guns I own, even if only a few times.

Likely a 9.3x72r.

Recoil pad is most certianly a replacement. Refinished at some point in its life.

[Acera]

Where are you located?

I am in the Houston, Texas area.

Drillings are not real common in this part of Texas, but you do see them from time to time.

Likely a 9.3x72r.

From what the seller said, and what I saw when I looked at it, the bore seemed smaller. Is there another caliber, closer to .30 or .35, that was popular back then? I hope I am wrong and it's the 9.3x72r as I can buy that off the shelf. Another caliber, like I read about on this forum from others could be problematic.


The seller seems to be receptive to honest opinions on the gun. He (and a couple of buddies at his table) were all friendly and were interested in finding out all they could about the drilling.

I did promise to pass on any information I found out about it to them, good and bad. This forum was what I had in mind when I talked to them about it. I will pass the link to this thread on so they can also read what you guys post.

Is there any recoil pad that would make it look more authentic? Or more.........kinda hard to phrase............correct to the firearm? I am guessing the stock was cut down for the installation, so original length and replacement butt plate is probably out of the question.

Hopefully we will get a consensus on the price in that <$1,500 range, as if I decide to purchase it, I benefit. However, if it goes higher, I will pass that on to them also. Trying to say I appreciate all your honest assessments.


Next question, if I do decide to purchase the rifle (at a reduced price), what would be my next step. I am assuming I need a good gunsmith to take a look at it, recommendations?


I would like to make them an offer this week.

Thanks,

[fuhrmann]

With the information available not much can be said about the rifle cartridge.
Even if it turns out to be a 9,3x72R, there is no guarantee that current S&B ammo will fit in - besides the question if it is safe.
Yes, it has a nitro proof stamp and the metal looks superficially OK.
Shotgun shells most likely will be 2 1/2" length.

If you want to shoot it, plenty of questions.

[mike ford]

Acera,
The drilling may be worth $1250, but I would lean more to $800-1000. The necessary work includes removing the glossy finish and recoil pad, all while avoiding additional sanding. It seems to have been sanded enough, that more will endanger the fit to metal parts. You should measure the length of pull, the overall look leads me to think it hasn't been significantly shortened( but may have been "squared off"). A steel or horn buttplate would be more appropriate, and can likely be installed. Unless it has been rechambered, the shotgun chambers are likely 2 1/2-2 9/16" rather than the current standard 2 3/4". Ammo for 9.3x 72R "Normalized" is available , but there are versions of 9.3x72R chambers that will not accept this ammo ( there are "fixes", but should be accounted for). If it is a "32" instead of "9.3", it would likely be 8.15x46R, 8x48R, 8x58R, 8x57R/360, or maybe 8x72R. A much less likely possibility is 8x57IR. These are all( practical ) handloading propositions, but many of us enjoy this. If ,in your negotiations, you can manage to get photographs of the proof marks, we can likely give you much more information. For this, the barrels will have to be removed, but this is not complicated at all. If you buy this drilling, it can be useful to you and you can have a lot of fun with it; but not for $3000.
Mike

[fuhrmann]

I am quite surprised about the high prices asked and paid for in the US.

Compare some guns offered at egun in Germany:

This one is quite similar but obviously "unmolested". Wait some days and you will see the final price - my guess will be not more than 4-500 Euros
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=6031484

And this one seems to be reasonably restored, it has a usable scope and it shoots
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=6115498

But I doubt that somebody will offer 2500 Euros for it - that's 2800 USD.

[Acera]

Thanks, I will call the buyer this afternoon. Got tomorrow off and will try and meet up.

If 2 1/2 inch 16 gauge, it seems like I can buy shells for $11-12 a box, so that is not bad. (I shoot .410 and 28 gauge now, so I know the pain, LOL)

How much could I expect to spend on each shell for the rifle? I do reload, so if it's inexpensive enough I might be able to set up for that. Just don't want to get down an impossible rabbit hole.

All this is contingent on the buyer 'seeing it' the same way you guys do and dropping the price to market level. That might be a big 'if'. For $800, I am thinking it might be worth the risk, if the other things are possible.




.

[mike ford]

Acera,
The cost of rifle ammo will depend on the caliber it turns out to be. It will cost around $70/20 for 9.3x72R or $130/20 for 8x72R, plus shipping. Handloading would cost, pretty much what other centerfire cartridges do, once you make or come up with cases. You can check Buffalo Arms, Graf, or Huntington Die Specialties for prices.
Mike

[Nathaniel Myers]

Here is a thread of mine about my Alfa drilling, you can see where the proof marks will be on your drilling. Also a decent idea of what all the members would be looking for as for photographs. Also there is some information about the type of action.

http://www.germanguns.com/upload/sho...-Alfa-Drilling

Unmolested rifles and drillings are sometimes hard to come by. They are certianly a premium. I agree with Axel as far as the work required. You can just barely see a picture with the new recoil pad that was fit. It had a 50's recoil pad that was badly mushroomed.

If I have time today I will take a couple recoil pad pictures for you.

[Acera]

Got tied up yesterday and could not make the phone call. However I hope to today.

I will ask for as many pictures as I can get, specifically under the barrels.

Thanks for all the help.




.

[John]

The shotgun "load" stamped on the barrels states 1 1/8 ounces of lead. (32 grams) Doesn't that sound high for a 2 1/2" 16 gauge shell from that era ?

[mike ford]

John,
Without going back to the charts to check, I believe the cited is the proof load, not duty load. I believe then , this would date the gun to before 1912, but after 1893. I would like to see all the proofmarks, to be sure.
Mike

[John]

Mike, I honestly don't know, but I thought that was a service load. Does anybody know for sure ? (I'm really curious...)

{I wonder if this gun is chambered for 12 gauge, and the seller assumed it was 16 ?}

[Axel E]

The load data marked on German guns up to 1912 was the maximum service load all the time, never the proof load. So the 32 gramm shot marking points to a 12 gauge rather than a 16 bore. But some mismarking sometimes happened, even at the German proofhouses.
As Nathaniel already noted, we need a photo of all the proofmarks and numbers on the underside of the barrels to identify chamberings, find out about the origin, Suhl or Zella-Mehlis, and date the drilling closer.