Valid Nazi Proof Mark?

[jillandsam303]

A seller is offering a Emil Kerner drilling with what he claims is a Nazi proof mark proofed in 1941. There is only one eagle on the gun's action. Any thought on whether this is legit?

[mike ford]

jillandsam303,
I believe the proof mark is legit. I w0uld be happy to own a Helmut Kerner, with side clips. If it was proofed ca 1938, chances are very good that my old friend Helmut Kerner, peened the side clips. This would make it special to me.
Mike

[jillandsam303]

Kerner Drilling on GI

Mike, the gun is being offered by my friend and superb gunsmith, Mike Merker here in Hendersonville.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100747216

jillandsam303,
I believe the proof mark is legit. I w0uld be happy to own a Helmut Kerner, with side clips. If it was proofed ca 1938, chances are very good that my old friend Helmut Kerner, peened the side clips. This would make it special to me.
Mike

[mike ford]

jillandsam303,
It's pretty obvious I had a senior moment, when I referred to the drilling as a "Helmut Kerner", Helmut was Emil's grand son; but he worked at his other grandfather's factory( Meffert). Even if the Kerner drilling was from 1938, Helmut wouldn't have peened the sideclips. In viewing the photos, I can't see a 1941 date. The 341 on the forearm iron is not a date, in my opinion, it would be a serial number. The proof marks for the barrels were not shown, the date would have been in that area. It is also my uneducated opinion that it is overpriced, so I will not be offering for it. I'm also not a big fan of low scopes on drillings.
Mike

[Nathaniel Myers]

Members and more knowledgeable people may disagree and set me straight, however I do not consider that a Nazi marking.

It WAS proofed in Germany, while the Nazi's were in power, but it is NOT a waffenamt, meaning acceptance into the Nazi military.

Maybe this is splitting hairs? That would be in my opinion akin to saying a 1942 Winchester Model 70 has US proof marks when in fact, it was just proved at the Winchester factory, not accepted by the US Military or government.

[fuhrmann]

Nathaniel

technically you are right. This eagle here is part of the regular proof marks.
Discussing distinctions between state agencies and National Socialist party organisations may seem like splitting hairs to some, while it may be important to others.
But that is another topic.

fuhrmann

[Axel E]

In fact, this eagle/N proof, in use 1940 – 45, is more "valid" than the former "letters under crowns" proofmarks. The 1940 proof law for the first time introduced clar marking with the cartridge designation, min/max dimensions and pressures and marking with the name or known logo of the real maker. These 1940 proof rules were used again post-war and evolved to the current CIP rules. Until very recently the German proofhouses still used an eagle/N stamp, just the 3rd Reich eagle with straight wings was replaced by the German federal one with drooping wings.