Please help to identify this drilling from 1923

[Czechmate]

Czechmate,
Of course you can use the gun for hunting. If you don't want a 9.3x72R, you can have it rebarreled in a different caliber, subject to the gunsmith's advice concerning the strength of the action. When I lived in Germany, I took a Forester friend to a gunsmith friend's shop, to repair his father's old sxs combination gun, which was also 9.3x72R. He had it changed to 8x57JRS. I'm sure this was before you were born, so I doubt my gunsmith friend is still in business, but there are others that can do this work. Maybe your father would help you with the cost, since it means something to him also. The article is in the "Der Waffenschmied" special issue on Drillings. "Der Waffenschmeid" is one of the publications of the German Gun Collectors Association. If you are not already a member, I encourage you to join. You can buy a copy of that issue from the Association's store. If you go to the Association's main website you can find the listing of publications available. If you join, you will get a discount from anything you buy.
Mike

Thank you Mike, I have checked the appropriate section and it looks very tempting... How many pages does that issue have, roughly?

[Czechmate]

Czechmate,

finding a good gunsmith is the way to go forward. All we can do here is discusing theories.
Finding the right gunsmith may not be easy - today most "gunsmiths" make their money by selling clothes ....
You will need one who still knows his craft and ideally shares the love for good old guns.
We will be interested to hear what he says!

My estimate was based on the assumption that all replacements have to be made new.
There may be ways save costs, but still I cannot imagine
1. to have the gun back in working order for less than 1000 Euros
2. that a comparable drilling in original and working order is worth anything close to 1000 Euros (I know german prices and assume not much difference in your country).
So this will be a "labor of love", money spent for your pleasure, never an investment...

The 9,3x72R is not as bad as some people say. Your drilling was proofed for Nitro / smokeless cartridges - without the holes in the barrel you could go forward and shoot modern Sellier and Bellot cartridges.
These are somewhat weaker than some smokeless loads made before the 2. world war, on purpose: not to blow up old guns in bad condition and maybe without Nitro proof.
Still, they are quite ideal for hunting roe deer in the woods.
The "legal limit" for larger animals can actually be reached by handloading, or see here: http://www.impalabullets.at/content/kalneu0606.htm
These legal limits may vary from country to country.

Putting in a barrel for a more modern cartridge might be possible, but they all generate higher pressure, modern 9,3x72R limit is 2000 bar, 8x57IRS limit is 3300 bar.
There are two questions: will this be accepted by the proofhouse and will it stand the testing (this is shooting some proof cartridges with higher pressure) and will is be solid enough for extended use?

Whatever you do, the gun is 100 years old.....
Regards
fuhrmann

I decided to first try to find good Czech gunsmith to see what he has to say about the current condition of the gun. After that, I will decide how to proceed... One scenario is, that I will wait till my retirement to have it as a project that will keep me busy... :-) Until then, it will hang on the wall for a display...

I have contacted RETZ & SOHN - SUHL and they said they would need to see the gun in flesh... It is roughly 400km, so I might jump into my car and pay them a visit on a good occasion...

I will keep you all informed if anything new happens... Don't expect any fast development though... :-)

Thank you!

[Czechmate]

A recommendation if I may. . .

First take very detailed, crisp clear photos of the "de weaponization" so that you have them available to send to a prospective gunmaker.

Second, ask around, quite possibly someone here knows, about trade schools in Europe. I attended a trade school here in the United States in the "art of gunsmithing". I have a good friend who attended a similar school in Ferlach. When I attended the trade school they claimed they were the largest gunsmith shop in the United States. We worked on customer guns sent in as part of our education. The prices were very minimal, with the understanding that students were performing the work. Nothing left the building without being inspected and passed by one of the instructors. You may be able to find something similar, somewhere, and have the work preformed.

I would also say, if you brought me that gun there are other options. The action appears to have been welded, which can cause some distortion and issues, but potential the face would only need cleaned up, the holes reopened and possibly bushings inserted. Then opening the barrels and making one of more einstecklauf to shoot available lower pressure cartridges.

Excellent idea! I will try to find similar school in my neighborhood... There is the CZ factory about 60km from my home, my friend used to be a CEO of their Slovak branch, he could also give me some useful tips, I will have to ask him... I bet there must be some good gunsmiths around CZ in Uhersky Brod...

Thank you!

[Czechmate]

Czechmate,
The gunsmiths I mentioned above, both have websites, you shouldn't give up until you consult the websites. I don't know the people running the shops now, but did know the gunsmiths that started both businesses. In both cases, the current people were trained in the shop, by people that I know could do the work, and there is every reason to believe they can also.
Nathanial,
You might be interested in the article, mentioned above, also.
Mike

Mike, where can I find these gunsmiths please? I can't see their webpage or their name in your posts... Thank you!

[Czechmate]

A shame to destroy a work of art, I am thankful for the 2nd amendment.
Mike

Well, communist pigs have destroyed much more than just work of art (be it this gun, or anything else they put their filthy hands on), they have destroyed this whole nation for many generations to come... Who has read the 1984 from Orwell gets very good idea what this regime does to the human soul...

[mike ford]

Czechmate,
The Der Waffenschmied about drillings has 47 pages. Henneberger is in Muennerstadt( u with umlaut) and their website is : WWW.henneberger.de. Zimmerman is in Wildflecken, and their website is WWW. Zimmerman-waffen.info .
Good luck
Mike

[fuhrmann]

I decided to first try to find good Czech gunsmith to see what he has to say about the current condition of the gun. After that, I will decide how to proceed... One scenario is, that I will wait till my retirement to have it as a project that will keep me busy... :-) Until then, it will hang on the wall for a display...

I have contacted RETZ & SOHN - SUHL and they said they would need to see the gun in flesh... It is roughly 400km, so I might jump into my car and pay them a visit on a good occasion...

I will keep you all informed if anything new happens... Don't expect any fast development though... :-)

Thank you!

It might be wise to check current firearms laws and customs regulations before crossing the border to Germany!

[Czechmate]

Thanks all! I have found a gunsmith in Czech Republic who's name and reputation is known in Suhl and he works on Drillings quite regularly, so he will be my first point of contact. I've sent him an email and will call him as soon as possible, and if he is willing to help, I will get the gun to him ASAP...
I will keep you posted...

[mike ford]

Czechmate,
If at all possible, I think it would be better to carry it to him, yourself. Aside from better communications, you may make friends with him. Some of my most rewarding friendships have been with gunsmiths. If not possible, you just have to do as best you can.
Mike

[Czechmate]

Czechmate,
If at all possible, I think it would be better to carry it to him, yourself. Aside from better communications, you may make friends with him. Some of my most rewarding friendships have been with gunsmiths. If not possible, you just have to do as best you can.
Mike

I just got a reply from this guy. Just from the way he talks you can see this guy knows and appreciates good workmanship and that he is very old school... He is obviously known in Suhl for a reason. From what he told me, he would like to see the gun himself to be 100% sure, but judging from the pictures I sent him, he said that it is close to impossible to repair the gun. He said, that obviously the de-weaponization was done in the most thorough way possible, the barrels have been welded with hard metal, the chambers were probably not only drilled, but also plugged with a steel rod going all the way through the barrel and welded, the percussion mechanism has been removed and welded on the inside. He said, that nowadays it is almost impossible to even buy the correct material to manufacture the springs (is it that special?). But he would need to see it to be 100% sure... I will do that as soon as possible, as he seems like a very knowledgeable man... And very courteous as well (You rarely meet some who ends his email with "Please accept the assurance of my highest consideration").

He recommended to buy another Drilling. He said, that he just came from Springers in Wiena and that there are lots of similar Drillings for auction and on the countryside, you can find them really cheap, as people often rid them because of the low performance of such caliber...

Oh well... I guess until he sees it and confirms the brutal de-weaponization, it will remain for the display only...

[mike ford]

Czechmate,
Of course you can find lots of drillings like yours for sale and cheaper, as well. This was already stated earlier in this thread. But, what I was addressing was restoring your greatgrandfathers drilling to shooting condition, not just finding a drilling for you to use. If you only want a drilling to use, you can find them now for a pretty good price. I would look for something other than an underlever drilling, and for myself it would be 7x57R or 8x57IRS(IR is acceptable), and 16ga 70mm chambers; with a decent scope( 6x42, or 8x56)( 4x32 is acceptable), in either claw or good swing mounts. I would later have an einstecklauf installed. Now, such a drilling would be cheaper than a 7x65R/12 ga because it is not in as much demand; but to my mind is much handier( especially if 60cm barrel length), and would be easier to use.
The only thing that would make the restoration of your drilling impossible( rather than difficult), would be if the frame were broken. I watched complete new barrel sets being made in my friend Walter Grass's shop, so if the old "hakenstuck"(sp) can't be saved, a new one can be made. New parts, for the locks can also be bought, they still make new hammer guns in Austria and I believe Germany. In the end, it is only your choice; no one else's.
Mike