Haenel Commercial 88 Sporter (9.5x57?)

[mike ford]

Nathanial,
You mentioned using a .372" expander, that should hold the bullets, if only a little bit of the ogive is in the neck. It the cases hold the bullets and a little gap bothers you, you could trim the necks, to below the ogive ( after firing them once). The repair to the stock, now, will likely hold; and if it doesn't at least, you can get to the break to reinforce it. If your stockmaker can reinforce it beforehand, so much the better. Let us know how it shoots.
Mike

[Diz]

Nathaniel,

I cannot add anything of value to the debate on what caliber this was originally but I could speculate on a couple of things. The bore diameter as you slugged it is closer to 9.4 than 9.5 and it would seem that the throat is fairly long if you can seat a 300 grain 375 out that far and just get it to stick. That may be a clue that it is a 9.4. Axel mentions the original loading with a 397 grain RN and I am thinking that would need a long throat to accommodate it. I am guessing now because I am far from an expert on these guns.

I am guessing also that the bullet in the photo is an old Hornady 270 RN .375 that Midway had as factory seconds. I have used hundreds of “seconds” and never saw any difference except price. I have no load data other than my QL program and something from Donnelly. That is a good book but contains some mistakes. If you look at the 375 Express 2-1/4” he lists 80 grains of 4350 with a 300 grain bullet. Something wrong with that one.

My program lists the CIP max as 44,236 psi for the 9.5x57 MS and plugging in the Hornady 270 grain 375 and 35 grains of Varget I show a pressure under 20,000 psi. The COAL with this bullet was shown as 2.953” The loading density is a little low at under 70%. This all looks good but one caution at least. All the older Hornady designed 375 RN’s are “hard” bullets and the bit of interference you have in diameters may show up as pressure. As always use caution and good luck, that is a very fine looking rifle.

Thanks, Diz

[Nathaniel Myers]

Diz,

Thank you, yes I believe the bullets are also "Old Stock" Hornady's. They are currently still available for a VERY reasonable price.

Thank you specifically for the information from your QL program. That made me much more comfortable the first time pulling the trigger. I did load the bullets longer than what you posted. Since I have only the original clip and would have to single load, I didn't mind. The next batch, I will chronograph and work up a load having seated them to proper depth.

Can anyone recommend a supplier for the correct enbloc clips for this rifle? I have found them on ebay and from Numrich, but of course have concerns of quality.

With a steel buttplate and a military Mauser stock with terrible geometry the rifle had quite a bit of a thump. Not bad, but I am sad to say it started raining after 10 rounds and I called it quits. No pressure signs, the brass seemed to fireform nicely. My hap hazard temporary stock whittled quickly from a Mauser 98 stock held with no apparent issues from the 10 rounds. I will bed it ever so slightly to fire form the remainder of the brass ( I think 50pcs should be sufficient)

No real group to speak of. The iron sights are tiny, and off hand at 50 yds, I believe I grouped only 6 or 7 rounds within 6 inches. A friend did notice something very ironic. He and I noticed blowback from the action. A few cases are sooty as the necks obviously did not seal very well. We commented on how an important development the gas handling features of the 98 and 1900 Haenel were!



Also, what are the S crown markings on a number of the parts?
What is the large script S?
TH, script S and markings on the bottom of the barrel? Any opinions?

Axel, what is the Dixon book you referenced?

[Dan Patch]

The crown over S mark (seen on the clip latch) seems specific to Haenel, evidently acceptance of one sort or another. It looks a little like a German military acceptance mark but not enough to have confused anyone regularly handling German sporting and military arms in that period. Dan

[Axel E]

Axel, what is the Dixon book you referenced?

W.B.Dixon:" European Sporting Cartridges Vol.1", 1997, Armory Publications, P.O. Box 4044, Bellingham, WA, USA 98227, ISBN-0-939683-10-5

[mike ford]

Nathanial,
Sooty case necks are usually considered a sign that the rifle wants a little more powder. I wouldn't worry about it in fireforming loads.
Mike

[Nathaniel Myers]

Dan,

Thank you for that, it almost looked a proof mark of its own sort.

Axel,

Thank you for the title. It has been added to my list of books to acquire.

Mike,

I had discussed the load with a friend and he had said the same thing. He was of the opinion my starting loads were a little too timid. I think for the remainder of the fire forming loads I will bump the load up a few grains. He was also of the opinion I should use a different powder.

Do any of you have recommendations for powder and load?

I am looking forward to chronographing and shooting a group.

[mike ford]

Nathanial,
In this class of cartridges, I usually use "military pull down" 4895. A friend and I went together and bought enough that it was shipped free, in addition to a very low per pound price. I use it because I have a "pile" of it, and it works well; not because the modern powders won't work.
Mike

[Nathaniel Myers]

Mike,

I wound up bumping my fire forming loads up to 42gr. Unfortunately work, finishing out my building, moving machinery before the weather hit, and of course getting "emergencies" taken care of before hunting season squashed hopes of getting the loads developed.

After I finish the fire forming loads I hope to trim and work up a good load. I am going to try 4895.

The bad news is the stock. Once the stock maker got into he found lots of issues. Several ancient stock repairs of poor quality along with lots of rotten wood. He pinned it using 6 pins and believes it is a solid joint but has concerns about longevity. We made the decision to use the original as a pattern stock to duplicate a new stock. While I really hate to replace the original stock, I also want to use and enjoy this old girl! I would love to hunt with it some day.

[mike ford]

Nathaniel,
You can hunt and shoot with the new stock, and still keep the old one for originality. I think it would make a fun cast bullet gun.
Mike