Haenel 7mm Commission 88 Sporter

[JDZincavage]

This one is a handy carbine without the improved magazine, and like the original 1888 Mauser rifle requiring en bloc clips, but in 7x57 Mauser.

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[JDZincavage]

More:

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The photos could be better. These were the ones used on Gun Broker by the guy I bought it from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_1888

"The Gewehr 88 was also sometimes made into very elegant sporting rifles by gunsmiths in Germany. Examples of these usually show first-class workmanship and special features such as folding sights and altered bolt handles. Some Karabiner 88 carbines are known to have been produced in 7×57mm Mauser instead of the usual M/88 or the 7.92×57mm Mauser chambering. These were likely intended for sale in South America, where use of the 7×57mm cartridge was widespread, but no military adopted it in this caliber. All known 7×57mm Karabiner 88s were produced by Haenel."

David

[Nathaniel Myers]

Very interesting. Other than the reciever markings, does this action have any markings? Is it labeled Haenel otherwise?

What about proof marks on the barrel?

I am only curious as that certainly "appears" to be a Commission 88 "sporterized" probably by the German gun trade.

[Axel E]

as that certainly "appears" to be a Commission 88 "sporterized" probably by the German gun trade.

To me the stock with the pronounced pistol grip, the front sling swivel fastened to a ring through the long foreend, the rounded checkering pattern and the front sight base Looks definitely "American", unlike all bolt action stocks made in Germany.

[mike ford]

I agree with Axel's opinion, but mostly because the stock seems to be made of American Black Walnut, as well as his reasons. This is not to denigrate the rifle, it's only an observation. I think without much justification that the rifle is not a "sporterized" military rifle, instead I believe it was initially built as a sporting rifle. I'm curious as to other's opinions.
Mike

[Nathaniel Myers]

My first thought was the stock looked far too fat and chunky for the German gun trade, but the grip angle is all wrong for an American sporter. It looks almost like a pistol grip, it is far too abrupt for an English or American style stock.

Of course, that isn't to say it was made by an ameteaur or gunmaker of poor quality.

Are there any markings on the stock?

[Dan Patch]

I'd say it was a German-made sporter built on an '88 action, subsequently restocked and otherwise modified in North America. The ramp front sight has a pre-WW.2 American look to it, and of course there's the Lyman-type cocking piece sight. Dan

[Axel E]

but the grip angle is all wrong for an American sporter. It looks almost like a pistol grip, it is far too abrupt for an English or American style stock.

Just have a look at the Stoeger "Peerless" stocks offered in the pre-WW2 Shooter's Bibles for sporterizing military rifles. Those share all these features, including the foreend mounted sling swivel.

[Axel E]

of course there's the Lyman-type cocking piece sight.

These Lyman No.1A cocking piece sights were a Haenel special order feature, described in their 1909 catalog. I have seen them on several Haenel sporters, M88; M1900 and M1909 models. Maybe offered as an export option, as such sights were never popular in Germany.

[JDZincavage]

I thought myself that the stock is un-Germanic in style. Possibly re-stocked in the USA. I'd rate the stock as very good second quality: a superior piece of wood with tiger striping, better than you find on most German guns, but not the kind of magnificent French or Circassian walnut you find on Griffin & Howe or high-end London rifles. Also a very different kind of finish from that on the other Haenel. Same thing with the checkering: a lot better than you find on US commercial rifles or in the work of low-end provincial gunsmiths. What I think of as Sedgeley-level work. It has three inlaid silver initials. We are having dark and rainy days for several days to come, but I'll try to take some better photos of my own when the sun comes out.

[JDZincavage]

The receiver is stamped:

C.G. HAENEL
SUHL
1907

The proof stamp on the side of the receiver says:

2,4 g G.B.P
St.m. G.

All that means: 2.4 g. is the proof powder charge in grams of the special powder "Gewehr Blattchen Pulver( Rifle Flake Powder)". 'St. m.G.' means that it was proofed with the service projectile "Stahl Mantle Geschoss" (Steel jacketed). The service powder proof charges may be used for dating the rifles: 1888-1901 = 2.75g, 1901-1910 = 2.67g, 1910 on = 2.45g.

[Axel E]

No, 2.4 g = 37 gr was the pre-WW1 service charge of the 7x57 with the then usual 173 gr bullet. The rifle was proofed for this load. The other loads you mention, 2.75, 2.67, 2.45 g, were the service loads for the 8x57I with the 227 gr bullet, not related to a 7x57 proof.
Unless There are the CROWN - crown/N proofmarks on the underside of the barrel, but the more common BUG marks, the rifle was not proofed with the special "4000 atm" proof powder. Knowing if the bore diameter is marked with a gauge number, likely 248 0r 222.5, or in mm, allows the dating pre or post 1912.

[JDZincavage]

You're right. My notes about the "2,4 g G.B.P St.m. G." marks come from an 8x57mm discussion. I just thought that Haenel was sporterizing former military 88 actions. I had not realized that they were actually using their own 88 tooling to make new sporters.

Here are the proof marks on the 1907 7mm Haenel:

ProofMarks1.jpgProofMarks2.jpgProofMarks3.jpgProofMarks4.jpg

[JDZincavage]

No, 2.4 g = 37 gr was the pre-WW1 service charge of the 7x57 with the then usual 173 gr bullet. The rifle was proofed for this load. The other loads you mention, 2.75, 2.67, 2.45 g, were the service loads for the 8x57I with the 227 gr bullet, not related to a 7x57 proof.
Unless There are the CROWN - crown/N proofmarks on the underside of the barrel, but the more common BUG marks, the rifle was not proofed with the special "4000 atm" proof powder. Knowing if the bore diameter is marked with a gauge number, likely 248 0r 222.5, or in mm, allows the dating pre or post 1912.

What are "the more common BUG marks"?

[Axel E]

What are "the more common BUG marks"?

You may find a thorough explanation on this GGCA website under "Gun Marks", http://www.germanguns.com/tech-corner.html
According to the 1892 proof rules, rifle barrels were to be marked with these crowned letters : B = Beschuss = proof load fired, U = Untersuchung = viewed/inspeccted for defects after proof firing, G = Geschoss = proofed for solid bullet use. These proof marks are usually called "BUG proof" and were in use 1893 - 1939. Both your rifles have the special CROWN – crown/N proofmarks, indicating proof with the "4000 atm smokeless proof powder". This powder, loaded with the same amount as the GBP = smokeless rifle flake powder service load, produced 4000 atmospheres pressure in the 8x57I M88 load. this proof powder and procedure was often used in Suhl and Zella – Mehlis for proofing rifles intended to shoot other smokeless, jacketed bullet loads.