Shooting ball in the cape gun

[kcordell]

Forum,

Have to ask as I am now doubting what I thought was true. Is it OK to shoot ball in cape guns? A somewhat knowledgeable gun guy informed me that capes were not designed to do so. I only have a couple of capes and neither are marked "nicht fur kugel"...hence my question...

[mike ford]

Kevin,
You can shoot slugs with out any problems, it's likely you can shoot balls ( what we used to call pumpkin balls), but it might be a good idea to check ball dia. vs choke ID. Whether it will shoot to a useable POI is another question altogether. I almost always hunt with shot in the shotgun barrel, because I don't want to give up the advantage of having both. Others may disagree, though.
Mike

[Leatherman]

I agree with Mike and would just use Breneke slugs as they were designed back in the day to be used in the combination guns. I got to meet the great grandson of the inventer and asked if there would be any preasure problem shooting the 2 1/2" Breneke slugs in any of the old combination guns manufactured before ww2 and he said that the Breneke slugs are designed to smoosh down to bore size without causing excessive preasures. I haven't had much luck with the slugs hitting the same impact as the rifle barrel except in an O/U cape gun I have. I want to try changing the load a little to see what that will have in the impact of the slugs this summer. Like regulating a double rifle .

[kcordell]

Mike and Leatherman,

Thanks for your sincere thoughts on the topic. Yes, I would only use the Brenneke 16 ga 2.5" slugs they released a few years ago. I have only thus far shot them in drillings with decent results...quite happy there. Again, thanks for the share here. My father recently left me his favorite cape gun and I don't want to damage it. The rifle is too challenging for me to load,
7x72r, so I thought I would just use the shotgun.

[Diz]

kcordell,

The 7x72R is one of the easiest to form from 9.3x72R as all you need is a full length sizer and run it in to make the case. Die sets are available, load data is out there and bullets are readily available. I can understand your concern if you don't have a great deal of experience with handloading but this is an easy one and it would be a shame not to have "full use of the gun" as they say. You will find a ton of help on this forum.

Good luck, Diz

[kcordell]

Hmmm....I just looked and your right. I would suspect it's a .318 but will measure. Where would I find nitro loads?

[mike ford]

Kevin,
If you have a 7x72R, it wouldn't be .318" ( it should be close to or .284", which is standard 7mm bullet diameter). If you need a .318" bullet, you must have an 8x72R, instead of 7x72R. You should check the proof marks first(easier), and if it is 7x72R, it would be marked 7 or 7,0 over or next to a 72. The "R" would not be marked, as this would be selfevident. If it is 8x72R, it would be marked 7,7 or 7,8 over or next to 72( again no "R"). The 7x72R is an uncommon cartridge, but I believe it would be a fun cartridge to load for.
Mike

[Büchsemann]

Kevin,

Most definitely use the Brenneke 65mm (2 1/2") 16's but of course where the slugs will pattern in relation to the rifle will be something to see.

If you indeed have a 7X72 they're certainly not common as Mike says so I'd add good for you and to me nice! Either way, if it's a7X72 or 8X72, both are easy to make from readily available 9.3X72 brass. All it takes is proper annealing, a good sizing wax and plenty of patience. I have found the patience part is needed as you have a fair amount of brass to move which is best done a little bit at a time by lightly waxing the case with each incremental advance of the full length sizing die. A half inch at a time, retracting the die in full, lightly waxing again and repeat. This reduces the odds of crumbling/wrinkling the brass. Worst case is crumbling your cases like crushing aluminum beer cans but any small wrinkles will "fire form" out the first time they're shot. You'll also need to re-establish the length of your cases with a trimmer given the cases will grow quite a bit in length ... the brass has to go somewhere. Once fully formed you'll be good to go as normal from there in ... subsequent sizing during normal reloading (not always a given that you won't have to full length size moving forward). I went through all this many years ago when I picked up my Brenneke 8X72R double rifle. I'd like to own a 7X72 someday, even more brass to move, I'm sure it would be fun work with as well. I have some load data for the 8X72 but nothing as yet for the 7X72, perhaps Axel has something if needed.

Regards,

Mark

[mike ford]

Kevin,
To add to Marks fine advice, my procedure for forming 8x72R is to full length size in 9.3x72 dies( all without expanders),and then size as far as the case will enter into a 32-40 file trim die (the solid head won't enter). I then fireform, but since they are smaller than 8x72 at this point, you should go to the 7x72 die. Marks advice about going very slow is very important, and you must use a powerful press. If a case gets a little stuck, drive it out with a rod while putting pressure on it with the press, if you try to do it all with the press, you can pull the rim off. This is why it is important to remove the expander from the die. It may help to use the 7x72 seating die before the sizing die. In the upcoming WAIDMANNSHEIL, I have an article about the 22 Savage High Power; one of the photos shows a 7x72R case, which will give you an idea of how much you will have to size the cases. Good luck, I'm sure it will be a lot of fun.
Mike

[Frank Kernan]

Kevin,
Ballistic Products sells a "Dangerous Game Slug" which I believe is European made. Sherman Bell tested some in the DGJ sometime back and found they caused no problems with elevated pressure. The construction has them with a running band which allows them to pass through chokes ok. I had some tested for pressure about 10 years ago and they went from 7,433 psi to 9,400 psi so that should not be an issue. If you like I can post the test sheet. The slugs are 425 grains so I just used loading data for about 1 ounce of shot. I roll crimped them using an old hand tool and was using Cheddite hulls. I used them in a Korinski cape gun and a Geco SxS hammer gun. Accuracy of course will vary, they are really for short ranges.
Frank

[Frank Kernan]

Dangerous Game Slug loads

Kevin,
Ballistic Products sells a "Dangerous Game Slug" which I believe is European made. Sherman Bell tested some in the DGJ sometime back and found they caused no problems with elevated pressure. The construction has them with a running band which allows them to pass through chokes ok. I had some tested for pressure about 10 years ago and they went from 7,433 psi to 9,400 psi so that should not be an issue. If you like I can post the test sheet. The slugs are 425 grains so I just used loading data for about 1 ounce of shot. I roll crimped them using an old hand tool and was using Cheddite hulls. I used them in a Korinski cape gun and a Geco SxS hammer gun. Accuracy of course will vary, they are really for short ranges.
Frank

[kcordell]

Guys,

Thanks greatly for the excellent feedback. I made an error on the .318,,,,yes indeed it n is 7x72r as I had the chamber cast and measured. Barrel is marked with a bunch of data but is Austrian in origin hence I just went with the cast to be 100% sure. Well, sounds like a good summer project.



Frank, interesting note on the dangerous game slug. I will take a look. I bought a few cases of the Brenneke 2.5" so have plenty to last for a bit and again, it works well for me. As for impact, at least in one specific vintage scoped 16x16x8x57IR Simson drilling, the results were as below at 50 paces. I had a better target to share but my wife recently "cleaned" my work area and now I can't find anything.

Brenneke slug in both left and right barrels and 8x57IR on bottom shot prior to scope adjustment. Shot off hand standing... bench provided slightly better results but again that target is missing.

[sharps4590]

I wish any of mine shot Brenneke's that well.

[mike ford]

Kevin,
It's hard to see how you could get a better group, from the bench, than that one is.
Mike

[Diz]

kcordell,

Did I mention that there was a lot of help on this forum. These guys are a wealth of information. I have a rather heavy duty press but for forming cases such as this I generally screw the die out as far as I can to utilize the mechanical advantage of the press when doing the sizing and then screw it in a little at a time and lube lightly between until the case is home. As mentioned, it tales patience, some annealing and a good lube but the results will be worth it.

Donnelly lists a load developed by Barnes for the 7x72R with a 160 grain bullet as 27.0 grains of 4895 @ 1810 fps. I would start a bit lower and work up.

That's a great target by the way. Amazing really!

Diz